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Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093161
11/10/22 01:24 PM
11/10/22 01:24 PM
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sixpakdodge Offline
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Originally Posted by dizuster
Hey hey...you're giving away our secrets! Lol


All the 'tricks' aren't disclosed, lol. Truth being I'd like to see Indy revise the lower casting because if this works you'd think it would sell at a premium price. Thought myself about making 'insert kits' a guy could rub and then epoxy together because...it's probably going to be better than a single 4 no-matter how bad I am.


Do you think the same idea/theories would work on a Six Pack Modman? I'm sure each engine is going to have it's own specific set of requirements, but was thinking about how to kill some of the plenum on a 500" street motor I'm putting together.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: polyspheric] #3093350
11/11/22 08:38 AM
11/11/22 08:38 AM
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HardcoreB Offline OP
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
I like it!
AFAIK the ideal shape for the divider nose isn't a knife blade (frequently seen), but a full radius, where the diameter = divider thickness.

Correct and that law is obeyed as much as possible on this divider width...except on one area.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: dvw] #3093353
11/11/22 08:50 AM
11/11/22 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dvw
All this work just to try and beat the old man.
Doug

The cat is out of the bag and you may feel the target on your back! I feel IT IS a possibility!!!... when Scott buys a better/bigger block with added higher CR etc, AND upgrades to a better head/rocker gear so we can put a cam in it thereby using core pieces capable of another 100HP AND finds another 300 pounds of weight, IT WILL(might) BE a might be a close race! Wait ...prob get a converter too. LOL When are we doing a RB modman for the '64?

Last edited by HardcoreB; 11/11/22 08:50 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093355
11/11/22 08:52 AM
11/11/22 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Originally Posted by dvw
All this work just to try and beat the old man.
Doug

The cat is out of the bag and you may feel the target on your back! I feel IT IS a possibility!!!... when Scott buys a better/bigger block with added higher CR etc, AND upgrades to a better head/rocker gear so we can put a cam in it thereby using core pieces capable of another 100HP AND finds another 300 pounds of weight, IT WILL(might) BE a might be a close race! Wait ...prob get a converter too. LOL When are we doing a RB modman for the '64?

Prolly needs some 4150's too, we'll have to think some more but my head is already overcapacity.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093362
11/11/22 09:04 AM
11/11/22 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
I've been doing 'other things' so this went on a backburner but this is essentially what I'll try. There will be a TWO inch spacer above this and then one additional change was Scott buying the INDY "EFI" 2 AFB top which spreads the carbs apart a touch more so they are better over each runner. Talked with a few that run the modman and run well and there some basically unmodified in the plenum. That said, we could baseline it without the plenum mods..AH, NO!

SIXPACKDODGE..So if you look at the partial circles in blue on the center bridge, they are the trace of the 2x4 'carb' lid from Indy. In my latest pics, I better scribed (you may be able to see the marks?) the "NEW" 2x4 lid which is the 'efi' version which places the carbs more central to the ports allowing me to straighten the runners a fair amount. IN theory, this will help distribution and also performance. Ken L shared that idle distribution is BAD in stock form until you get up in speed at WOT. I'd assume the 6-pack is even more central in carb placement...

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093368
11/11/22 09:15 AM
11/11/22 09:15 AM
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SIXPACKDODGE...So in the pic on post 3062430 it shows the runner extensions following the as-cast trajectory of the intake. That would be the difference in the way i added runner extensions for the 6-pack. i wouldn't add any bridge in the center and I'd ADD a spacer below the lid. ALSO, I'd use mechanical carbs with a pump shot. I think this is the way I'd do the lower with a single-4 "4500" with a lid like AndyF made...every version of this intake other than a blower needs runner extensions IMO.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093393
11/11/22 10:32 AM
11/11/22 10:32 AM
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sixpakdodge Offline
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Thanks for the response. A lot of good info. I agree on the runner extensions. The spacer, I hadn't even though of. Seems like in stock form, there'd be a massive bog until the r's picked up...definitely needs some velocity to make it work down low. I suppose the intake is a builder's piece, just needs tailored.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: sixpakdodge] #3093506
11/11/22 03:42 PM
11/11/22 03:42 PM
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What HardcoreB and I found was that the runners are EXTREAMLY short for just about everything. We had the luxury of 8 runners and 8bbls, so he was able to point them pretty easy where we wanted them.

The spacer was for both plenum volume and giving the fuel/air some height to make the turn.

6bbl would probably benifit from the height, but aiming the runners would get complicated.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: dizuster] #3093676
11/12/22 10:19 AM
11/12/22 10:19 AM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I hate to say anything good about Indy but I don't know what you mean by "fix" this intake. I bolted one on my friends 572 Hemi and couldn't believe how close it ran to the ported super duper $3,000 S/S manifold we took off.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: rickseeman] #3093680
11/12/22 10:31 AM
11/12/22 10:31 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Several years ago I reworked a set of std port Indy SR heads that went on a 493 with a Ede 6bbl manifold.
My recollection is it was a 10 second street/strip combo.
After about a year or so the owner wanted to try and step it up a bit, so he bolted on an untouched std port Mod Man 6bbl manifold.
Ran the same speed/ET.

That would have provided the option to open up both the heads and manifold to MW size.
I don’t know if that ever happened or not.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3093691
11/12/22 11:23 AM
11/12/22 11:23 AM
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IMO the spacer is a very good idea, adding back some volume being lost with the changes. I dont think it is a bad a piece as the crossram deal personally, because of where it places the carbs..Just my twocents


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

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Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: rickseeman] #3093721
11/12/22 01:37 PM
11/12/22 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rickseeman
I hate to say anything good about Indy but I don't know what you mean by "fix" this intake. I bolted one on my friends 572 Hemi and couldn't believe how close it ran to the ported super duper $3,000 S/S manifold we took off.

I respect and appreciate everyone's input and feedback! Your application is different being a Hemi and I haven't looked at or measured the runners to the valve. I'm not interested in testing the intake for this motor IN HIS CAR etc. After sorting the engine in the car the results will tell a story. Dynoing this against an unmodified modman and against a different good single 4 intake system would be interesting. I'd guess between the MW porting, adding the spacer and straightening the runner path on this application it's probably a good 100HP better. We feel it will be better EVERYWHERE, especially down low. The spacer will allow the fuel to distribute better among other more obvious benefits. Once it's done and bondo'd up it'll look 'better' from a functional standpoint. The dividers were tacked-in for long-term retention and the center bridge was welded along the sides but after blending is not air-tight to the runners. For now it'll use AFB's because that's what Scott wants. It'd definitely benefit from the tunablity (pump shot mainly) and increased flow of a pair of Holleys. Now if runs as well as we expect it to with the AFB's wouldn't that be win/win?

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3093722
11/12/22 01:37 PM
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[u][/u]
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
IMO the spacer is a very good idea, adding back some volume being lost with the changes. I dont think it is a bad a piece as the crossram deal personally, because of where it places the carbs..Just my twocents

I love spacers, I put that shxt on everything!

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093732
11/12/22 02:45 PM
11/12/22 02:45 PM
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Quote
Dynoing this against an unmodified modman and against a different good single 4 intake system would be interesting.


Is any of that part of the plan?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3093755
11/12/22 03:54 PM
11/12/22 03:54 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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as a stupid person asking a stupid question, what kind of epoxy is best suited for intake modifications when gasoline with E10 or E15 is being used for street duty ?
TIA for those smarter than i will ever be. bow
beer

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3093792
11/12/22 05:50 PM
11/12/22 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
Dynoing this against an unmodified modman and against a different good single 4 intake system would be interesting.


Is any of that part of the plan?

Negative ghost writer. I feel the engine has proven to be good in a short period of time. In theory this intake should be better. I added 1 point of compression by swapping in flattops and retarded cam 2 deg @107.25 Based on the weights he’ll probably stop looking for mph around 800hp. Short of that, who’s to guess what a guy will do? All this stupidity started when we looked at the weight and thought “it’d be cool to run 10’0s” So, like anyone would else…I started going back into things

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3093804
11/12/22 07:45 PM
11/12/22 07:45 PM
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I had saved this blower/modman pic months ago

27179ADC-DDC1-44F7-B2CD-8C6346024101.png
Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: moparx] #3094130
11/14/22 12:11 PM
11/14/22 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
as a stupid person asking a stupid question, what kind of epoxy is best suited for intake modifications when gasoline with E10 or E15 is being used for street duty ?
TIA for those smarter than i will ever be. bow
beer

Sorry I missed this, all I can say is I've had good luck using "A+B" epoxy but that's been in race-gas engines.

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3094142
11/14/22 12:52 PM
11/14/22 12:52 PM
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thank you sir. up
beer

Re: How to fix this intake? [Re: HardcoreB] #3094180
11/14/22 03:25 PM
11/14/22 03:25 PM
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When I look at that gaping maw of a plenum with stubby little runners I see a chaotic hurricane of fuel mist getting slapped around by induction and reversion pulses. At low rpm the fuel is likely puddling on the floor. At the hit the end cylinders are getting a big gulp of dry air and the centers aren't doing much better.

That thing needs air flow. Big air flow. Bigger than that. A 440 will need scary rpm to make it work and will struggle getting up to speed. Big inch engines (bigger than my 541) would likely do better with it but, again, you'll have to work to get into the usable rpm.

Just my amateur eye speaking.

I do like some of those runner mods.


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