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Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues #3091009
11/01/22 06:55 PM
11/01/22 06:55 PM
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Northern Virginia
Moparmaniacc Offline OP
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Guys, I replaced my old Offy manifold with a new Edelbrock 7193 for my 440 Challenger R/T. I didn't use paper gaskets under and above the valley pan, like everyone told me to do. I kept my almost new Holley 700cfm vacuum secondary carb. I now have 2 problems:

1) I have a wicked whistle (vacuum leak?) that seems to be coming somewhere from the passenger side. I have good ears, but it's so loud it kind of obscures where it is coming from. The whistle eases up as you put the engine under load. How can I find where the whistle is coming from. (please don't ignore this question at the expense of the next question).

2) I can't adjust the ignition timing to where I want it because the vacuum can is hitting the manifold. Someone said I have to rotate the distributor clockwise to get the vacuum can away from the manifold, and then move all the plug wires counterclockwise by one wire at a time? How do I do this so I can keep the ignition timing close enough to get the car to start.

Thanks for your help, John






20221101_200619.jpg
Last edited by Moparmaniacc; 11/01/22 07:26 PM.
Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091038
11/01/22 09:16 PM
11/01/22 09:16 PM
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North Carolina
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469runner Offline
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Regarding the whistle. Go over your carburetor installation. Are all vacuum ports plugged? Power brake booster vacuum tee connected? All vacuum line connected? Is there reason to believe the intake gasket is leaking? Get a propane canister and connect a hose to the nozzle. Open the valve to the propane and move the hose end along the intake along the cylinder head. If engine speeds up, you have found a leak. The distributor needs to come out and make sure the drive is indexed onto the camshaft property. This is covered in a service manual. If you don't have one, get one. The manual will also show the proper wire positions.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091040
11/01/22 09:34 PM
11/01/22 09:34 PM
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by Moparmaniacc
Guys, I replaced my old Offy manifold with a new Edelbrock 7193 for my 440 Challenger R/T. I didn't use paper gaskets under and above the valley pan, like everyone told me to do. I kept my almost new Holley 700cfm vacuum secondary carb. I now have 2 problems:

1) I have a wicked whistle (vacuum leak?) that seems to be coming somewhere from the passenger side. I have good ears, but it's so loud it kind of obscures where it is coming from. The whistle eases up as you put the engine under load. How can I find where the whistle is coming from. (please don't ignore this question at the expense of the next question).

2) I can't adjust the ignition timing to where I want it because the vacuum can is hitting the manifold. Someone said I have to rotate the distributor clockwise to get the vacuum can away from the manifold, and then move all the plug wires counterclockwise by one wire at a time? How do I do this so I can keep the ignition timing close enough to get the car to start.

Thanks for your help, John


On the whistle make sure its not the base of the carb or a loose vacuum line. At the manifold to head try a viscous fluid as it will rapidly disappear or blowback at you. Oil works real well but is messy. Soapy water may work depending on how warm the motor is. May be other fluids that would work better shruggy A plumbers putty or similar may also work if its not too warm. will be difficult to find if its on the bottom side frown


On the timing thing, you can either move the oil pump drive 1 tooth, or do the plug wire thing. Moving the plug wire 1 place would require moving the distributor a corresponding amount. (DUH) How does one do that? Several different ways.

note where the rotor is with respect to the #1 wire in the cap when on TDC. Move the wires whichever direction needed (Clockwise to get less advance) CCW to get more advance.
If you are hitting the manifold it would indicate that you want more advance as the rotor rotates CCW
Once the wires are moved,
Rotate the distributor until the rotor in close to the same position noted above in red. Should be close enough to start beer

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: TJP] #3091061
11/02/22 02:45 AM
11/02/22 02:45 AM
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massachusetts U.S.A.
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1969ronnie Offline
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wave Hi John , I also agree you have the oil pump / dist drive shaft off at least 1 tooth . Standing on the pass side fender , the dist vac can nipple should go almost straight across to drivers fender , or in your pic , point about to the center of your battery . drive Time to Check your dist / Oil pump shaft . Ronnie

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: 1969ronnie] #3091062
11/02/22 02:51 AM
11/02/22 02:51 AM
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1969ronnie Offline
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wave Dist nipple should point to NAPA sticker in your picture . Or almost straight across to drivers fender , standing on pass side of fender if dist drive shaft installed right . wrench

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: 1969ronnie] #3091071
11/02/22 06:17 AM
11/02/22 06:17 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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1.You need the paper gaskets.
2. You need to move the gear. At tdc the rotor is where it is, moving the wires won't fix that.

Where is your #1 wire at ? I am used to it being towards the pass valve cover. From what I see the ones in the position I am used to seeing , I see two the go to the drivers side consecutively, that would have to be 5-7.

Last edited by B1MAXX; 11/02/22 06:30 AM.
Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091106
11/02/22 09:31 AM
11/02/22 09:31 AM
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Get a couple of feet of heater hose, garden hose or the like, one end to an ear and wave the other end around the suspected leak. Very obvious, accurate and not messy.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: B1MAXX] #3091116
11/02/22 10:10 AM
11/02/22 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
2. At tdc the rotor is where it is, moving the wires won't fix that.


Yes it will, as you're re-indexing the wires to the rotor position, which is the opposite or moving the rotor to match the wires. Correct per the manuals no, Does it matter? only when your ability to achieve the desired timing is limited as it is in this case.
There are a few vehicle's in which the '"adjustment swing" is limited and those have to be wired with the rotor "clocked" and "wired"per the book.
This one hasn't been or the V/A wouldn't be hitting the manifold wink Not trying to be a S/A just clarify for the OP and others wink beer

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: TJP] #3091144
11/02/22 11:38 AM
11/02/22 11:38 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
2. At tdc the rotor is where it is, moving the wires won't fix that.


Yes it will, as you're re-indexing the wires to the rotor position, which is the opposite or moving the rotor to match the wires. Correct per the manuals no, Does it matter? only when your ability to achieve the desired timing is limited as it is in this case.
There are a few vehicle's in which the '"adjustment swing" is limited and those have to be wired with the rotor "clocked" and "wired"per the book.
This one hasn't been or the V/A wouldn't be hitting the manifold wink Not trying to be a S/A just clarify for the OP and others wink beer


Ok so you are saying move them all 1 spot counter clock wise and re-time it, which will move the housing clockwise 1 full spark plug post hole. I understand up But I was thinking that would be too much further forward. the tooth would be less. beer 1 spark plug tower would move the housing 45*

Last edited by B1MAXX; 11/02/22 11:46 AM.
Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: B1MAXX] #3091197
11/02/22 03:32 PM
11/02/22 03:32 PM
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When I look at the picture the right rear carb nut looks odd. Like its not tight. The front I can clearly see the washer under the nut. Just looks odd to me.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: NITROUSN] #3091231
11/02/22 05:44 PM
11/02/22 05:44 PM
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Northern Virginia
Moparmaniacc Offline OP
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Thank you all for the info. I will try and report back.

One thing I would like to know, do I have to move the distributor gear or can I move the wires as described. The reason I ask is, maybe the distributor gear not being indexed is causing the other issue I have. If I bump the timing up to where I think it needs to be, the car surges (bucks back and forth) at low speeds in 1st, 2nd and 3rd if I let up on the gas. It feels like I am trying to ride a mechanical bull. wink

Last edited by Moparmaniacc; 11/02/22 05:45 PM.
Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091237
11/02/22 06:23 PM
11/02/22 06:23 PM
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Fort Worth, Texas
3hundred Offline
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I'd fix it the right way. In your service manual there's a diagram of how the distributor drive gear should be aligned.


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Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091238
11/02/22 06:31 PM
11/02/22 06:31 PM
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Keizer, Oregon U.S.A.
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elmor353 Offline
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I went through the vacuum leak with a 440 vehicle I bought. On the way home it started running like crap. I had all I could do to keep it running. Got home and pulled the intake off, the previous owner had installed the aluminum intake without paper gaskets. I installed paper gaskets on either sides of the metal bathtub gasket and it sealed up and ran perfect. I would never install an aluminum intake without the paper gaskets. Cast iron intakes seal just fine with the metal bathtub gaskets. Aluminum, not so much.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: elmor353] #3091244
11/02/22 06:53 PM
11/02/22 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by elmor353
I went through the vacuum leak with a 440 vehicle I bought. On the way home it started running like crap. I had all I could do to keep it running. Got home and pulled the intake off, the previous owner had installed the aluminum intake without paper gaskets. I installed paper gaskets on either sides of the metal bathtub gasket and it sealed up and ran perfect. I would never install an aluminum intake without the paper gaskets. Cast iron intakes seal just fine with the metal bathtub gaskets. Aluminum, not so much.


I beg to differ. I have a Performer RPM on my low deck stroker. It seals just fine with a bathtub(no paper) that's been reused a couple times w/different manifolds.

I'm wondering if the OP's heads have been cut and the manifold he took off was cut to match while his new intake is not??

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: B1MAXX] #3091280
11/02/22 09:03 PM
11/02/22 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
2. At tdc the rotor is where it is, moving the wires won't fix that.


Yes it will, as you're re-indexing the wires to the rotor position, which is the opposite or moving the rotor to match the wires. Correct per the manuals no, Does it matter? only when your ability to achieve the desired timing is limited as it is in this case.
There are a few vehicle's in which the '"adjustment swing" is limited and those have to be wired with the rotor "clocked" and "wired"per the book.
This one hasn't been or the V/A wouldn't be hitting the manifold wink Not trying to be a S/A just clarify for the OP and others wink beer


Ok so you are saying move them all 1 spot counter clock wise and re-time it, which will move the housing clockwise 1 full spark plug post hole. I understand up But I was thinking that would be too much further forward. the tooth would be less. beer 1 spark plug tower would move the housing 45*


Correct, 45 degrees is a lot but should allow him to get well away from the intake. He did not mention where the timing was with it pegged against the manifold, that would be helpful to have known wink. And yes 1 tooth would be less, probably even two teeth wink
I suspect the OP is a bit concerned on his ability to move the drive gear. No offense meant to him as it can be intimdating to one who has not done it . beer

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Moparmaniacc] #3091283
11/02/22 09:11 PM
11/02/22 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Moparmaniacc
Thank you all for the info. I will try and report back.

One thing I would like to know, do I have to move the distributor gear or can I move the wires as described. The reason I ask is, maybe the distributor gear not being indexed is causing the other issue I have. If I bump the timing up to where I think it needs to be, the car surges (bucks back and forth) at low speeds in 1st, 2nd and 3rd if I let up on the gas. It feels like I am trying to ride a mechanical bull. wink


I would suggest that you run the motor up to TDC on the compression stroke and verify your timing mark is in the correct position.
I would them Move the gear to correctly orient #1 plug wire in the distributor cap.

Align the rotor with that #1 position or towards the advanced side(CW to the rotor) , reposition the wires as needed and start the motor. Leave the vacuum advance disconnected and the port blocked. Get your initial timing set to ~ 10 degrees Before TDC. Report back and we'll go from there wink twocents beer

Last edited by TJP; 11/03/22 11:44 AM.
Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: TJP] #3091331
11/03/22 06:53 AM
11/03/22 06:53 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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The surging is from the vacuum leak (lean) i would bet. The timing is just lack of attention to detail, and just will likely prevent peek performance (you can't get to the settings it wants). You can move the wires. your vacuum dia. will be moved forward approx. 45* I personally would clean up all that up as said above.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: Dcuda69] #3091716
11/04/22 07:43 PM
11/04/22 07:43 PM
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elmor353 Offline
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If your low deck aluminum manifold didn't leak then you got lucky. I personally have NEVER had one that would seal without the paper gaskets. That is 2 different low decks and 3 raised blocks.

Re: Edelbrock 7193 Performer manifold issues [Re: NITROUSN] #3091722
11/04/22 08:03 PM
11/04/22 08:03 PM
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Long Island, New York
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I have and have had many aluminum manifolds on big block Mopars. The only time you would need paper gaskets was if you were reusing the metal one.







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