Build a 550, or 580?
#3091098
11/02/22 10:10 AM
11/02/22 10:10 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
After all the delays, i am back in my shop , but wrestling with two options.
I have a 4.315 stroke crank from Crower, with center counter weights.
Crank number two is a Callies , 4.560 stroke, BUT NO CENTER COUNTER WEIGHTS.
My block is an aluminum BMP 4.500 bore, new block.
The center counter weighted crank appeals to me because i assume it may distort the block and cylinderbores less at high rpm, giving it an edge in ring seal?
The heads are 572-13 385cc, with aditional work by Larry Smith. Intake is a 3X, reworked by Wilson manifolds. Compression will be 15.6 with 580 cubes, 14.9 with 550 cubes. Cam will be the . 868 lift roller, 285/296/113 @ 50. Mechanical fuel injection, methanol fuel.
Thoughts? Direct comparisons?
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/02/22 10:12 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: FastmOp]
#3091110
11/02/22 10:46 AM
11/02/22 10:46 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3091115
11/02/22 11:10 AM
11/02/22 11:10 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
|
After all the delays, i am back in my shop , but wrestling with two options.
I have a 4.315 stroke crank from Crower, with center counter weights.
Crank number two is a Callies , 4.560 stroke, BUT NO CENTER COUNTER WEIGHTS.
My block is an aluminum BMP 4.500 bore, new block.
The center counter weighted crank appeals to me because i assume it may distort the block and cylinderbores less at high rpm, giving it an edge in ring seal?
The heads are 572-13 385cc, with aditional work by Larry Smith. Intake is a 3X, reworked by Wilson manifolds. Compression will be 15.6 with 580 cubes, 14.9 with 550 cubes. Cam will be the . 868 lift roller, 285/296/113 @ 50. Mechanical fuel injection, methanol fuel.
Thoughts? Direct comparisons? Based on the block you bought, I would go with the center counter weighted crank....If you had one of the new Indy Max water blocks or a KB, I would go the other way.
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: powertrip]
#3091124
11/02/22 12:00 PM
11/02/22 12:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
What's the pin size on the Crower? Possible to offset grind?
All depends on how high you want to turn it, the Crower will be easier on the bearings, the Callies will be easier on the valve train. Crower pin is 2.190 now.
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/02/22 12:00 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3091125
11/02/22 12:03 PM
11/02/22 12:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,355
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,355
Las Vegas
|
Look at any professional race engine and tell me what crank they have. The answer is they ALL use center counter weights across the board. Off road, WOO, F1, Nascar, NHRA etc etc. It is a superior piece and in a serious Mopar IMO a necessity from bearing life and easier on the mains.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3091159
11/02/22 01:07 PM
11/02/22 01:07 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,815
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,815
MI, usa
|
I agree that center counter weight could be better. That being said my 4.5" stroke crank doesnt have center counter weights. Though the RPM is kept relativley low at 7200. It's never hurt a main bearing. Except for last years failure which I believe started with a bent oil pan, the rod bearings look great. The others that were not hurt had 475 passes on them. Looked great. They still snapped in place in the rods.
Doug
Last edited by dvw; 11/02/22 01:07 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: 440Jim]
#3091184
11/02/22 03:11 PM
11/02/22 03:11 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Last I remember, you had everything for the 580 CID (pistons, rods, etc). So I would just stick with that plan.
Would you need pistons to use the shorter stroke 4.315 ? (with the 572-13 heads) Jim, i have all needed parts for both. So it is still in the air. The fact that at 4.15 stroke i had cap walk issues in my mega block 528 haunts me. The CW crank fixed that, and rhe 550 with the cw ceank made super hp for 440-1 heads. Given i am running the same 4.56 gears and converter, either will work but the 580 will probably be harder to hook running a 2.45 low gear and 33x 10.5 tires.
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/02/22 03:14 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: dvw]
#3091358
11/03/22 11:05 AM
11/03/22 11:05 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Thanks all for the input. I have decided to go with the CW 4.315 crank, since the actual performance may not improve a lot with 30 more cubes on an already head limited motor. Also the center weights MAY contribute to better ring seal, and less stress on the block, since the rods i have for the 580 are about 70 grams heavier, which on top of no center weights would up the stress. Wish me luck😀 !
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: challenger1320]
#3091992
11/06/22 12:57 PM
11/06/22 12:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
I have a 557 B1 motor and a 588 B1 motor they are completely identical except for the displacement. The 588 is quicker (et) but the 557 is faster (mph) in the same car. The 557 has a center counter weight crank the 588 does not. You do the math. Challenger, what trans, gears and ratio do tou run? Weight?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3092034
11/06/22 03:45 PM
11/06/22 03:45 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
|
My next two B1 and B1-MC heads will have center counterweights cranks, the B1 will have an old KB top fuel 4.5 stroke with Mopar rod size journals and Scat H beam steel rods with a lot of NOS  The better (more HP,2000+ HP  ) supercharged EFI on E85 B1MC motor with have a Bryant center counterweighted crank with BB Chevy rod journals and 4.375 stroke
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Build a 550, or 580?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3092097
11/06/22 07:09 PM
11/06/22 07:09 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
|
If recycling a high level (fuel, etc.) crank: it probably has the older 8 bolt flange
Boffin Emeritus
|
|
|
|
|
