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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3090184
10/29/22 12:39 PM
10/29/22 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
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It's one of the following 1. Clutch adjustment. how far off the floor does the clutch start to engage ? That will be a strong indicator whether it's adjustment related. Should be an 1-1/2 inches or so 2. Warped disc or misadjusted pressure plate. (should cause a chatter when engaging) 2. Dragging pilot bearing /bushing 3. Severely misaligned bellhousing (causes the above as well as other issues) keep us posted 
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3090185
10/29/22 12:39 PM
10/29/22 12:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,006
South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,006
South Park, Pa.
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I agree. Reverse is not synchronized. If it grinds, your clutch is not disengaged. I shoot for about 3/16” free play at the clutch fork. This should give you about 3/4" to 1" free play at the clutch pedal. I hope this helps.
Last edited by 68LAR; 11/02/22 06:22 AM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: Sniper]
#3090337
10/29/22 10:04 PM
10/29/22 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
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Free play is irrelevant.
What you really need to look at is pressure plate departure. I shoot for .060" with the pedal fully depressed. Free play ends up being what it ends up being. Now this does assume your entire clutch linkage setup is not all wore out and is in good condition. If it is not fix that first. Free play can become relevant if there is none, not trying to be an a-- just clarifying Agree on the clearance and linkage, bushings etc. condition. Will also mention to make sure all of the components like the Z bar. clutch fork. pivot ball etc. are correct as I have had some real hacked up cr-p roll through the doors in the last 25 years 
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: TJP]
#3090349
10/29/22 10:26 PM
10/29/22 10:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
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I vote pilot bearing and or warped / bent disc hub. Both of these are worse when everything is hot. You can try to get more clearance just to confirm it. Do you have any noise or chatter when you release the clutch? Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: TJP]
#3090383
10/30/22 04:43 AM
10/30/22 04:43 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,220
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,220
nowhere
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Free play is irrelevant.
What you really need to look at is pressure plate departure. I shoot for .060" with the pedal fully depressed. Free play ends up being what it ends up being. Now this does assume your entire clutch linkage setup is not all wore out and is in good condition. If it is not fix that first. Free play can become relevant if there is none, not trying to be an a-- just clarifying True, but if you have no freeplay at .060" departure your problem is something wrong in the linkage .
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: Sniper]
#3090398
10/30/22 08:59 AM
10/30/22 08:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,006
South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,006
South Park, Pa.
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Free play is irrelevant.
What you really need to look at is pressure plate departure. I shoot for .060" with the pedal fully depressed. Free play ends up being what it ends up being. Now this does assume your entire clutch linkage setup is not all wore out and is in good condition. If it is not fix that first. When troubleshooting, I usually start with the easiest thing to do first and work my way to the hardest. Clutch adjustment is the easiest to start with. It sounds to me like something is keeping the clutch disc engaged. This could be a number of things, Clutch adjustment, Pilot bushing not installed properly causing the input shaft to bottom out or just be too tight, loose or damaged linkage, disc not sliding on the input shaft, Etc.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: 340rag]
#3090467
10/30/22 01:15 PM
10/30/22 01:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
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Will def try to adjust clutch, already replaced brass pilot bearing (Dan Brewers recomendation) with needle bearing type going to put in staylube 85 90 GL4 Fluid in Trans, was told its because I have a Cenerforce clutch setup but its brand new as is the trans is also redone,I have to go from first gear then partially back to first to keep it from grinding just a thunk when I do that When COLD No noise at all!!.I have had many 4speed mopars and was able to go from neutral to reverse with Zero issues at all! This is unreal!! if the cars were warm and had been idling with the clutch pedal up, the above is a bit unusual. When cold with the 85-90 the fluid MAY be thick enough to stop the input and cluster gears from turning when the clutch is pushed in. But unusual when warm or with thinner fluids. 1. Easiest thing the check is how far from the floor does the clutch start to engage ? Should be about an inch or a Bit more. This measurement should be with the floormat in place. If you have an inch or more of travel it would "indicate" the problem is other than adjustment but not confirm it as there are other things that could cause your problem. 2. The next easiest thing to check is the plate clearance when the pedal is fully depressed. If you have a stock bellhousing this is easily done by dropping the inspection cover and measuring the clearance with feeler guages. .060 as previously mentioned is more than adequate. Get a "Snug" drag on the gauges while measuring but not to where you have to force them in. 3. While doing so, mark the flywheel or PP cover, and the edge of the clutch disc. 4. Proceed to rotate the disc while checking the clearance in several areas( 8-12 or so),the should stay very close to the original reading. If it varies much it would indicate a bent clutch disc or input shaft. 5. The next step would be to measure the clearance again with the pedal fully depressed, incrementally rotate the engine (disconnect the coil wire if doing it using the starter) while holding the disc stationary. Check the clearance in several places. The clearance again should stay the same. If it does not it would indicate a misadjusted pressure plate or non flat flywheel surface. if you do not have a stock Bellhousing with the inspection cover the above can be done through the clutch fork opening but it is much more difficult. IF you follow these steps which sound more complicated and time consuming than they are It will be a strong indicator of where the problem is. Report back with your findings or sell me the car for say 5K ? LOL
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: 340rag]
#3090522
10/30/22 05:29 PM
10/30/22 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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More possibilities
Crankshaft pilot hole not quite deep enough.
Bell housing not concentric to crank.
Wrong flywheel bolts
Washers on flywheel bolts
Excessively cut flywheel
Disc in backwards
Broken/stretched/loose pressure plate finger pivot bolt.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 10/30/22 05:32 PM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3090623
10/31/22 09:04 AM
10/31/22 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
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Ive had the 4 speed in my 65 since 69.Never heard you have to go to 1st then reverse.I always adjust my clutch so that it goes into reverse with no grinding and neve have ant problems.Clutch in it now is like 20 years old and has been weel beat on.Still goes into R with no problems.have had to adjust it twice in over 20 years
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: therocks]
#3090698
10/31/22 01:26 PM
10/31/22 01:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,279
Omaha Ne
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Ive had the 4 speed in my 65 since 69.Never heard you have to go to 1st then reverse.I always adjust my clutch so that it goes into reverse with no grinding and neve have ant problems.Clutch in it now is like 20 years old and has been weel beat on.Still goes into R with no problems.have had to adjust it twice in over 20 years There are a lot of variables that can avert the issue. If you've never ground the reverse gears you are an anomaly, have extremely thick grease, or rotating resistance in the trans. I will try to explain why When the car is is running in neutral with the clutch up, The input shaft is 'locked" to the engine via the clutch assy. The cluster gear is spinning as it is in constant contact with the input shaft. But the car is not moving as none of of the output shaft gears are engaged with the cluster gear to transmit the power. OK hopefully your following along and understanding the above So, one depresses the clutch pedal, that should disengage the input shaft from the engine. IF their is enough resistance within the transmission, the input shaft and cluster gears will stop spinning allowing any gear to be engaged. The above resistance is usually caused by thicker gear oil, clearances in the trans itself, bearings that have rotational resistance. or a combination of the 3. IF there is little to no resistance, the cluster and input gears will continue spinning for a short time. During this time (gears spinning) If one tries to engage R it will grind until the cluster/ input stop because R is not synchronized. During this same time if one selects ANY of the forward gears they will stop the cluster and input without grinding as the forward gears are synchronized. Once the gears are stopped, one can then go into reverse without grinding. If the gears start spinning again after having been put in a forward gear with the clutch continually depressed, that would indicate that something is dragging on the input shaft causing it and the cluster gear to start spinning again. If the gears continue to spin for a extended period of time (30 seconds or more  ) WITHOUT putting it in a forward gear, that again indicates something is dragging on the input not allowing it to stop. I am 68 YO and was taught to always do a forward gear before trying to put it in reverse. So it is habit for me. Bit If I forget I will sometimes get a little grind and sometimes not. hope this explains why one should always select a forward gear before reverse.
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Re: Grinding in Reverse
[Re: TJP]
#3090736
10/31/22 02:50 PM
10/31/22 02:50 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,750
Phila
PhillyRag
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,750
Phila
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Ive had the 4 speed in my 65 since 69.Never heard you have to go to 1st then reverse.I always adjust my clutch so that it goes into reverse with no grinding and neve have ant problems.Clutch in it now is like 20 years old and has been weel beat on.Still goes into R with no problems.have had to adjust it twice in over 20 years There are a lot of variables that can avert the issue. If you've never ground the reverse gears you are an anomaly, have extremely thick grease, or rotating resistance in the trans. I will try to explain why When the car is is running in neutral with the clutch up, The input shaft is 'locked" to the engine via the clutch assy. The cluster gear is spinning as it is in constant contact with the input shaft. But the car is not moving as none of of the output shaft gears are engaged with the cluster gear to transmit the power. OK hopefully your following along and understanding the above So, one depresses the clutch pedal, that should disengage the input shaft from the engine. IF their is enough resistance within the transmission, the input shaft and cluster gears will stop spinning allowing any gear to be engaged. The above resistance is usually caused by thicker gear oil, clearances in the trans itself, bearings that have rotational resistance. or a combination of the 3. IF there is little to no resistance, the cluster and input gears will continue spinning for a short time. During this time (gears spinning) If one tries to engage R it will grind until the cluster/ input stop because R is not synchronized. During this same time if one selects ANY of the forward gears they will stop the cluster and input without grinding as the forward gears are synchronized. Once the gears are stopped, one can then go into reverse without grinding. If the gears start spinning again after having been put in a forward gear with the clutch continually depressed, that would indicate that something is dragging on the input shaft causing it and the cluster gear to start spinning again. If the gears continue to spin for a extended period of time (30 seconds or more ) WITHOUT putting it in a forward gear, that again indicates something is dragging on the input not allowing it to stop. I am 68 YO and was taught to always do a forward gear before trying to put it in reverse. So it is habit for me. Bit If I forget I will sometimes get a little grind and sometimes not. hope this explains why one should always select a forward gear before reverse.
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