Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
New HR lifters...... first test #3085938
10/14/22 11:02 AM
10/14/22 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
Had a motor on the dyno yesterday.
505 BB, stock block, unbushed lifter bores, HR cam.

We’ve only had a few of these on the dyno, and I haven’t been thrilled with the lifter function of those earlier builds.
No failures, but fairly noisy operation, and I was underwhelmed with the upper rpm capabilities.

With the internet filled with reports of failed FT cams over the last 2 years or so, I thought it was time to try and embrace the HR’s.

A lot of BBC marine engines go on the dyno here, and pretty much all the higher HP ones use HR cams/lifters.
Even on some of those we’ve had some builds where the lifter noise was pretty objectionable.

So, Comp came out with their new Evolution HR lifters that utilize a replaceable hyd cartridge(89211-16 for the BBM).
There is a YouTube video on them, if you’re interested.

Anyway, I wanted to try a set in this particular build.
I was looking for at least reasonably quiet operation, and a stable valvetrain to over 6000rpm.

I’m happy to report that they were a success on both fronts.
Very reasonable in the noise dept, and no signs of any valvetrain unhappiness thru 6300rpm(as high as we went).

The cam used had rpm friendly .380 lift lobes, coupled with 1.6HS rockers, and dual springs set up at 150/400.

There’s a Pontiac going on the dyno soon(waiting on a couple of parts) that’s also going to be using these lifters.
The cam in that motor has lobes that aren’t as rpm friendly, and both 1.5 and 1.65 rockers will be tried.





68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3085946
10/14/22 11:32 AM
10/14/22 11:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
G
gremlinsteve Offline
top fuel
gremlinsteve  Offline
top fuel
G

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
Awesome news


if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: gremlinsteve] #3085950
10/14/22 12:18 PM
10/14/22 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,072
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,072
Loudoun County, VA
That's encouraging luck


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: Brad_Haak] #3085953
10/14/22 12:40 PM
10/14/22 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
It wasn’t my build.

I would have taken it to 6500 just to see how the valvetrain behaved if I’d have built it.
The power was peaking around 6k, so there wasn’t really any reason to go higher than we did.

He got bit by sneaking up on the rpm with one of the other HR combos when a lifter bled down....... and stuck there.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3085964
10/14/22 01:01 PM
10/14/22 01:01 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 702
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
super stock
INTMD8  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 702
Lake Villa Il
Sounds nice!! Good to hear as a friend of mine is in need for his build soon.


If you don't mind sharing what did you run for preload and did you measure plunger travel?

Last edited by INTMD8; 10/14/22 01:01 PM.

69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: INTMD8] #3085969
10/14/22 01:10 PM
10/14/22 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
The instructions claim .150” plunger travel, and to run them down .100”......... I assume that’s where he set them.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3085994
10/14/22 01:58 PM
10/14/22 01:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I would like to do some more dyno testing with one of those new sets to see if they like .150 preload cold versus .030 to .045 preload cold work
Not this year though whiney

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/14/22 01:59 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3086019
10/14/22 02:54 PM
10/14/22 02:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
master
Brian Hafliger  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Good to hear! What heads were you using?


Brian Hafliger
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: Brian Hafliger] #3086027
10/14/22 03:06 PM
10/14/22 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
EZ’s


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3086132
10/15/22 12:20 AM
10/15/22 12:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,263
New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
pro stock
Chargerfan68  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,263
New York, USA
That is great to hear. Any comparison to the Howards Max Effort (Gatermans) HR lifters? On the 6bbl eng we did last year (with your help) , they performed real well and not too noisy. I just followed up with the guy who owns the engine and he is very happy with those Howards and says he also doesn’t think they are that noisy.
Any direct comparison that you have to those? Great that there is another option out there.

Thx


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: Chargerfan68] #3086183
10/15/22 10:25 AM
10/15/22 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
Most of the HR cams I’ve sold for BBM’s have gone into engines I’ve never heard run......... so I have no personal experience to draw from WRT the Gaterman lifters.
Most reports have been positive on them.

Two fairly recent 440 builds got the Howard’s normal HR lifters(street morels). Both were noisier than the new Comps...... with one of them being louder than I think I could live with.

The attraction for me with the new lifters was the idea of improved upper rpm capabilities along with quiet operation from a lifter that retains the normal hydraulic function.

I think the upcoming Pontiac might be a better test for their capabilities.
The cam is more aggressive, and coupled with the 1.65 rockers should give the lifters more of a workout.

I have a customer with a BBC that had a HFT cam eat several lobes during break in, so that build will be getting a HR now.
This customer is not really a fan of HR cams......... so I used some soft lobes for that one too.
I think it’ll get these lifters as well.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3086356
10/15/22 07:49 PM
10/15/22 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Two fairly recent 440 builds got the Howard’s normal HR lifters(street morels). Both were noisier than the new Comps...... with one of them being louder than I think I could live with.

Now you know my pain with the Morrels in my small block. laugh2 I ended up putting the Comp solids in my truck but they were twice as loud. Fine for a race car with open headers but not a street driver with a quiet exhaust. I put the Morels back in and gave it .085 preload instead of the .060 I had previously. Not quiet but not too bad. If I ever put a bigger cam in it I'll try those Comp lifters. Thanks for the heads up, just wish it would have came sooner. laugh2


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: Guitar Jones] #3086403
10/15/22 10:58 PM
10/15/22 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I recall remarks by David Vizzard about how different oil formulations (same weight) affected lifter function. I wonder if any difference would show up on the new Comps.? Might be interesting, but very time consuming to do all the testing.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: Guitar Jones] #3086441
10/16/22 10:16 AM
10/16/22 10:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
master
CSK  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Two fairly recent 440 builds got the Howard’s normal HR lifters(street morels). Both were noisier than the new Comps...... with one of them being louder than I think I could live with.

Now you know my pain with the Morrels in my small block. laugh2 I ended up putting the Comp solids in my truck but they were twice as loud. Fine for a race car with open headers but not a street driver with a quiet exhaust. I put the Morels back in and gave it .085 preload instead of the .060 I had previously. Not quiet but not too bad. If I ever put a bigger cam in it I'll try those Comp lifters. Thanks for the heads up, just wish it would have came sooner. laugh2


I have the Morel race Hydros, mine were VERY noisy , I set them .020 from bottomed out, nice & quiet, BUT I should not have had to do that for $1300.00 lifters GRRRRRR, I also think if running any roller lifter the block should be bushed

Last edited by csk; 10/16/22 10:17 AM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: CSK] #3086455
10/16/22 10:53 AM
10/16/22 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
These new Comps weren’t “silent” like an OE 318......... but I felt the noise level was better than “acceptable”.
The 2 440’s with the Morels ........ one was marginally acceptable....... and the other was unacceptable(imo).

My interest in these isn’t to recommend them for racing use. For that I’d always prefer solid lifters.

I was looking for a viable alternative for the hot street, street/strip builds where the customer wanted to have confidence in the engine not eating the cam, and not try to run a solid roller cam on the street in a vehicle that sees considerable annual mileage....... and wouldn’t have the noise/rpm issues that can often come with HR cams/lifters.

In this engine at least........ I’m calling it a win.

I will admit, I did stack the deck somewhat in that I did use lobes that I expected would get over 6k if the lifters behaved.

The Pontiac with the faster cam and 1.65 rockers will probably be a better test for the lifters, since it’s the type of cam more commonly used by the “masses”.

Hopefully an opportunity will come up before too long where I can try these lifters in a BBM with a faster cam.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3086474
10/16/22 01:10 PM
10/16/22 01:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
master
CSK  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
These new Comps weren’t “silent” like an OE 318......... but I felt the noise level was better than “acceptable”.
The 2 440’s with the Morels ........ one was marginally acceptable....... and the other was unacceptable(imo).

My interest in these isn’t to recommend them for racing use. For that I’d always prefer solid lifters.

I was looking for a viable alternative for the hot street, street/strip builds where the customer wanted to have confidence in the engine not eating the cam, and not try to run a solid roller cam on the street in a vehicle that sees considerable annual mileage....... and wouldn’t have the noise/rpm issues that can often come with HR cams/lifters.

In this engine at least........ I’m calling it a win.

I will admit, I did stack the deck somewhat in that I did use lobes that I expected would get over 6k if the lifters behaved.

The Pontiac with the faster cam and 1.65 rockers will probably be a better test for the lifters, since it’s the type of cam more commonly used by the “masses”.

Hopefully an opportunity will come up before too long where I can try these lifters in a BBM with a faster cam.


I appreciate the info, I have HEARD but no personal experience that the Johnson roller lifters are very good & supply many OEM'S ,they have a few different hydros available, BUT they are pricy like the junk Morels I have

Last edited by csk; 10/16/22 01:11 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: CSK] #3086476
10/16/22 01:23 PM
10/16/22 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline OP
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline OP
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
These new Comps are currently about 1/2 the price of what you paid for the high end Morels.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: fast68plymouth] #3086489
10/16/22 02:03 PM
10/16/22 02:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
G
gremlinsteve Offline
top fuel
gremlinsteve  Offline
top fuel
G

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
Do you happen to have a part number for the ones you used


if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: gremlinsteve] #3086494
10/16/22 02:10 PM
10/16/22 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
It's listed on their website and the first post.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: New HR lifters...... first test [Re: gremlinsteve] #3086497
10/16/22 02:17 PM
10/16/22 02:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
master
CSK  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
Originally Posted by gremlinsteve
Do you happen to have a part number for the ones you used


I see you are in Houston, I am in Pattison Tx, not many of us on these mopar forums


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1