Hi guys, got a friend with a 3700lb Chally who currently races in our NSS class with his 440, He's just bought a std. bore 400 block (3698630 400*8) and is looking to build a 650hp+ stroker.
The car has a good chassis going 1.54 60's@11.0's>11.1's@121 best. Caltracs etc., QA1 shocks etc.etc.. you get the picture. A built converter will also be acquired, goal is 10.40's>50's

So he has a pair of 300cfm@.600 Eddy heads currently which he was thinking of using for this 499>512 motor purely because of money and the lack of it. But that may change, TF heads are £4k to get them here. I think he's going to struggle some with those heads to get 650hp-ish on pump, going to take a big s/roller for that?
Only real parameters are V-power pump gas as its still driven on the street a bit. Looking at either a Scat or Eagle kit or ?
What say you guys who've been there and done that given the mentioned facts. Cam recommendations would be helpful, sft or s/roller specs, 10.9cr sounds like it would be max on V-power cam dependent of course.
thanks

We have a stroker combo that works really well in the B-bodies.....Even better in an A-body....

We use 440Source strokers and their girdle.....They make very good hp with even mild heads. With a set of good heads, they make excellent hp....One of our street/strip B-bodies runs 10.50-10.70 on they're 440/526 kit....I think is really awesome....We also have a ton of 400/512's running in A, & B bodies.....My last one made right around 800hp on good 93 octane....

We use Indy EZ1 heads fully ported with a good single plane intake and a 4105/1050 Profom carb.....I can also get you our cam info....We street them and race them...

Thanks, yes I would appreciate it if you give us a run down of your 400 stoker builds with cam info, pm if you prefer. Only thing we know currently is he will probably have to use his 300cfm+?@.600 Eddy heads and V-power fuel for minimal street. Money is tight with everything going up and shipping of course at silly prices so trying to do it as best as and do it with the right parts once. We both have an idea of what it takes to make that hp but not done it. It will be a 4150 carb thats used.

650 hp is easy with good heads. I've built several pump gas 470 engines with 11:1 compression that made over 700 hp. The Trick Flow 240 heads will do it right out of the box, Edelbrock heads will require some careful port work but it can be done. Check out the tech section of my website or watch the videos on my youtube channel.

I think I’m currently building what you’re asking for. My goal was 650 when I set out on this build, but most guys with experience are telling me I should be somewhere around 700. Fingers are crossed. Short story:

- 400 block @ .040 over
- 3.91 stroke / 6.70 rod / 1.322 ht flat top piston (basic 470 combo).
- 11:0:1 compression
- Trickflow 270 heads
- Indy 4150 intake / 1000cfm 4150
- Howards solid roller - 259* / 263* @ .050
- 1.6 rockers (yeilds .660 lift after lash)
- 1-7/8” / 3” headers.
- 9-1/2” converter (4200 flash)
- 4.56:1 gears / 30” radial tires.
- 3725 lb (in the beams) B Body.

That combo could hit 700 hp. The cam needs to be exactly what the TF heads want, they are pretty picky about cam timing. You'll also want to make sure the intake manifold is well matched to the heads. Port matching is required with the Indy intakes since out of the box they tend to be rather ragged in that area. A 400-3 intake with a Dominator would give you another 15 or 20 hp on the dyno but it might not go down the track any quicker. You'll just have to try it and see.

I had a 400/451 13;1 with home ported Indy SR heads & a Hughes 256@50 flat tappet cam & Std Holley 750 carb. That was good for 10.7 @127mph in my 3670lb E body on 3.9 rear gears.

Thanks, yes I've given him some links to your builds and the link to this thread, he may join in and participate if he finds time from working on the cars. Personally the only thing I'm not sure of are the heads, they are 72cc and a std. gskt is somewhat small and needs opening up at the pinch. I'm not sure of flow but heads are reputed to be ported by MCH cnc'd so around the 300-315cfm? mark@600.

The heads really seem to be a bit of a choke point to me@512ci, perhaps not, the right head would be TF270's but@4k to the UK is too much for his budget...we can pick a cam to suit but want to get things right first time, hence all the questions.

I hope Dwayne sees this and gives a recommend on either an SFT or s/roller from the spec below> or I'll pm.

So 10.9:1-ish for CR, thats where he is with current 440.
Eddy heads, 950>1050 4150 carb, TF/Indy Eddy intake?
3700lbs +/-, 3.91 gears/28" stiff wall Hoosiers
Will have a built converter, 4>5k stall?....motor will be on the dyno for choice+ cam dependent.
Runs C/tracs/mono's, QA1 shocks.
Will be street driven but only minimally.
He builds his own motor's and is competent, just not done anything like this prior.

Sounds similar to some combinations my Challenger's gone through in the past... 11.0s at 121... 10.5s at 126. My stuff's all stock-stroke 440; got no feedback on stroker combinations.

However, I wonder on occasion if my results apply to Joe Average cuz I'm in a location where there are a number of close-to-sea-level tracks and pretty optimum conditions in the spring & fall. In the summer here it's just hot & humid, so everything slows down a few tenths (at least mine do).

Is Santa Pod the UK's only dragstrip? What's the track elevation, and any idea what's typical of DA readings there?

https://airdensityonline.com/track-results/Santa_Pod_Raceway/

Baro is mostly high 29's>30's, doesn't get much above 2000 that often, mostly 16>1700's when warm

Its not the only dragstrip but the only one where TF can run 3.7>8's. Recently laid concrete track, supposedly the best if not 1 of the best tracks in europe.

In fact, I just built another one and its sitting at the shop as it needs rocker arms, push rods, and a carb....We typically run 10.7:1 compression to stay pump gas friendly.

The better the heads, the more HP....The Eddy heads fully ported flow about what an unported set of EZ1 heads do, but they should still make your goal of 650....I know this because one of my older 512's has a set of iron heads converted to MW ports with 2.14/1.81 valves, and in a street car with mufflers and 3.91 gear on radials we went 10.76 with it last week....

And really there lies the issue, using heads that are somewhat of a choke,in my opinion for engine size.... cam choice etc. will be important to get right. Trying to squeeze an honest 670hp= 10.30's@130 is not going to be easy@10.8>9:1 on pump and still be somewhere near street able, not sure what he's willing to put up with.
Only thing going for it will be the size of motor and the torque....this is the car by the way.

I'm throwing this out as my first thoughts...
- 505+"
- no more than 11.0 CR for pump gas
- open up Eddies to MW, even though I'm not sure how much that improves the choke point issue
- Indy SP 4150 intake port matched
- solid roller cam with "spring friendly" lobes that'll take 6800+ RPM (max RPM on big end?)
- 270 int / 275 exh 109 LSA on 105 ICL, .650+" lift
- "big" 4150 carb
- 2" headers (if not being used already w/ 440)

His 3.91 and 28" bias-ply tires are more suited to bigger cubes than my 4.10s and no-growth 275/60R15 radials which hit about 6800 at 126; I'm gonna be 7K+ if my MPH gets close to 130.

If he hits the lottery, a set of TF 270 heads. Otherwise, run what he's got already cuz it'll still be faster than his current 440.

Cheers Brad, that is what we were thinking along the lines of except opening up the eddy's, not sure enough material for that height wise, don't know if anyone's done that successfully without tubing the pushrod hole and opening the pinch on BB heads as no real need to do all that with other MW heads available unless he could do it all himself which I doubt he would want to.

We were talking around the .650" s/roller yesterday, just picking the right lobes so he won't have to go way over 600lbs open. Lots to think of, we don't want to just throw this together.

You can open up the gasket surface to MW, but not the full length of the port due to the pushrod location. Never done it myself and assume it's a lot of grinding for ??? results. I know Dwayne -- possibly others -- have posted pics of that type of work in the past, FWIW.

Best out-of-the-box standard-port 4150 intake IMO is the Trick Flow piece... IMO. Andy's used the low-deck version on his builds and my 650+ HP RB 452 build has the raised-deck version.

Your friend's performance goals are right in line with mine, too.

FWIW--My Super Gas car with 447 C.I. Low-Deck (.020 over 400 block)

Unported Victor heads, compression around 14 to 1
850 DP Holley carb
Victor 383 intake manifold
Step headers 2" to 2-1/8"
Comp Roller Cam 23-999-3

At sea level tracks would run 154 MPH. Car with me and ballast aboard weighs 2250. I think that computes to 643 HP.

i had a low deck.540 with sr heads and tunnel ram with 2 1050s,750 roller cam was a bad mf

Ok let me put it this way, If you have a big motor say 512ci and you put a std port head on it thats somewhat restrictive which is what we will have in my opinion how do you make 650>700 on pump. Its either big comp/big s/roller and rpm. None of those will be there with a max of 11:1, and 3.91 gears apart from a big cam, have I answered my own question?.....

On my 440, I had a big sft cam with restrictive stock 906 heads, put same but ported BV heads on it and it picked up .5 and 6mph with no other changes, thats understandable, this build won't have the option of a better head, at least not for now so if there is around a 50hp difference if not more from his std. port 300cfm head to an MW head@350cfm+ as I see it how would you compensate for that given the comp and rpm limits of this build or is it impossible because at the end of the day the heads and intake system are where the power is.

You take those heads, and have them opened to MW size....And fill in the holes with JB weld....That's what's on our Dart..906's I think, with a 2.14/1.81 valves...Runs 10.76....

Random thoughts here, but might help putting some context around your friend's build. Like I mentioned above, we might be talking similar track conditions in many cases, so perhaps my numbers aren't too far off for comparison.

With ported OEM iron heads, pump-gas CR, and moderate sft cam (254 at .050), it was a low 11-sec (11.0) car in good conditions... 3700+ #s... probably 540-550 HP

With Dwayne's ported standard Stage VI heads (310 cfm), about a 10-degree bigger sft cam, 10.7 CR, and I don't remember what else, in really good conditions it got into the 10.5s... 3750#... probably 610 HP for that combination; even under noticeably crappier conditions, it was still going 10.7-10.8s

Other factors
- I always run radials, so that's a tenth and about 1 MPH improvement over bias-plies
- my 9.5" converter is pretty efficient at about 8% slippage
- I had a lot of testing to get stuff dialed in... got the 60s down to 1.45-1.47

I have a hard time imagining how 500" -- even with "small" heads -- running comparable compression and a suitable sold roller wouldn't out perform a 600+ HP 440. Sure sounds like a solid mid-10s combination to me.