Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Guitar Jones] #3079750
09/22/22 08:30 PM
09/22/22 08:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,347
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,347
Rittman Ohio
The cam in my Savoy now is a Howards solid flat tappet is still running fine. It's fairly aggressive 620/612 256@50. I used Howards EDM lifters and Gibbs break in oil with inner springs removed and followed Howards break in procedure. Almost 2 years and only set the lash once since the install and that was just for maintenance inspection.
I wouldn't buy another Comp cam with all the other options out there twocents

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #3079759
09/22/22 08:48 PM
09/22/22 08:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,008
Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead Online rolleyes
Half Baked
Mr PotatoHead  Online Rolleyes
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,008
Super Spudsville
I often wonder if many of these failed cams users actually take the time to clean/check lifter bores, make sure they will slip though the bores and actually spin on the cam, the basic stuff needed. I noticed for a while some even included some paperwork on the most basic stuff.

Ive used some of the more aggressive lobe comp solid cams and never an issue with just making sure the basic things are "ok".

I know I see many engine assemblers on you tube who could do a whole lot better and makes me wonder how there junk can even run past break in. Simple things in from the machine shop bag to the stand, zero cleaning. Parts straight from the mfg. boxes to the block. No checking, no cleaning. Lifters straight from the box to the block... to me it no wonder some things fail. The the guys who toss a crank in and you see there fingers and arms strain just to get the crank to turn in the block..... super.

I know its not all the end user but I wonder about many are.


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Guitar Jones] #3079763
09/22/22 08:52 PM
09/22/22 08:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
master
Dcuda69  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
OEMs gave up on flat tappet cam tech back in the 80s. Not really sure why anyone would use ancient tech in a build now. So many street friendly roller profiles out there to choose from. I lost a Comp solid flat tappet years ago...yes I did everything right, break in, springs, Brad Penn oil, etc. Put a Comp street solid roller in it and never looked back. Runs fantastic! Should have done the roller in the 1st place would have saved me $$$$ and headache. Live and learn. twocents

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Dcuda69] #3079766
09/22/22 08:57 PM
09/22/22 08:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,008
Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead Online rolleyes
Half Baked
Mr PotatoHead  Online Rolleyes
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,008
Super Spudsville
No setup is flaw free.




Originally Posted by Dcuda69
OEMs gave up on flat tappet cam tech back in the 80s. Not really sure why anyone would use ancient tech in a build now. So many street friendly roller profiles out there to choose from. I lost a Comp solid flat tappet years ago...yes I did everything right, break in, springs, Brad Penn oil, etc. Put a Comp street solid roller in it and never looked back. Runs fantastic! Should have done the roller in the 1st place would have saved me $$$$ and headache. Live and learn. twocents

Screenshot 2022-09-22 at 18-52-07 Think Twice Before Buying from Comp Cams (Engine Failure) - Bing video.pngScreenshot 2022-09-22 at 18-53-36 Think Twice Before Buying from Comp Cams (Engine Failure) - Bing video.png

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #3079777
09/22/22 09:54 PM
09/22/22 09:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
master
SomeCarGuy  Offline
master
S

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
How often do you need to have the roller lifters rebuilt in these retrofit applications? Not all of us need that last few horsepower and want an oem type lifespan. I wouldn’t want to pick up a new winter maintenance item unless it’s a last resort. I can’t imagine a stock rebuild would net out much by going roller anyway.


I want my fair share
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3079782
09/22/22 10:07 PM
09/22/22 10:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,097
CT
GTX MATT Offline
master
GTX MATT  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,097
CT
I would call Jim at Racer Brown, ask him if he’s seeing the same issues

Last edited by GTX MATT; 09/22/22 10:08 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3079785
09/22/22 10:11 PM
09/22/22 10:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,438
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,438
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Roller lifters have been in OEM applications since the late 80's. How much more OE life span can you get? I'm either going to put mechanical rollers in mine or figure out a way to mount the stock magnum spider and yokes in my LA block so I can use stock magnum lifters, or I may just build a stroker magnum, I haven't decided yet.


I raise chickens, so I am literally a chicken tender.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one newer one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Guitar Jones] #3079787
09/22/22 10:19 PM
09/22/22 10:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,599
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
Worthy
MarkZ  Offline
Worthy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,599
Michigan
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
I had two Comp Cams mild hydraulic flat tappets wipe lobes within 20 minutes. I've been doing this for 45 years as a professional so I know what I'm doing. I did everything right and they still wiped lobes, the Summit cam before them had no problems. Comp replaced both of them and I returned the new cams to Summit or Jegs for credit and went roller. No more wiped lobes, but retrofit hydraulic rollers were a whole nother fuster cluck and I bought Morels because they are supposed to be good lifters and they are the same height as the stock magnum lifters. I swapped to magnum heads at the same time. Anyway 3 of the Morels weren't machined properly and wouldn't oil the rockers. Finally got that fixed, after paying for two more pairs of lifters plus overnight shipping, again. They are still noisy though.


I built my first aftermarket roller motor a couple of years ago. Comp retrofit roller lifters and a cam. Sounds like a sewing machine. Wasn't prepared for how noisy it would be.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Diplomat360] #3079789
09/22/22 10:23 PM
09/22/22 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,856
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,856
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by Diplomat360
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
At a 25% failure rate, shouldn't the cam grinder take stronger action than to only 'offer' additional services? Something like a strong declaration as to the failure rate without the additional services...

You know, if that number is true, it's attrocious. But heck, let's cut them some slack and assume it's actually better, say 5% failure rate...is that really "better" though???

I mean who out there, any of us for that matter, would accept an airline ticket with a 5% failure rate? How about municipal water services that guarantee you only 5% of your water being un-consumable? ...what about a bank that tells you about 5% of your transactions will fail???

Yeah, so I am purposely being dramatic here, but hasn't anyone at these companies ever studied SixSigma prinicples? (we are talking here 0.00034% failure rate)

I'm an IT person by profession, my products (software and interfaces) use these kind of metrics...so why can't an Engineering & Manufacturing company apply them?

bow
they can IF they want to, But I believe their focus is on $$ not quality. Especially so since they were bought.
In addition as mentioned, the demand for performance flat tappets camshafts is dropping so, their focus on addressing or improving anything is not there. Make it cheaper and ship it. No different than drum brake shoe linings vs disc, Same sh-t different period. twocents

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3079796
09/22/22 10:42 PM
09/22/22 10:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
master
Dcuda69  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
How often do you need to have the roller lifters rebuilt in these retrofit applications? Not all of us need that last few horsepower and want an oem type lifespan. I wouldn’t want to pick up a new winter maintenance item unless it’s a last resort. I can’t imagine a stock rebuild would net out much by going roller anyway.


I think that would depend on how many miles you put on and how aggressive the cam is. I only put a few hundred miles/year on and check lash every few years...zero issues(mine has been together roughly 10 yrs). Going roller wasn't about every last HP more about OEM longevity. Every pushrod V8 built since the mid 80s has been roller cam equipped......millions of miles proving rollers work.

Last edited by Dcuda69; 09/22/22 10:43 PM.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Guitar Jones] #3079799
09/22/22 11:14 PM
09/22/22 11:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
master
SomeCarGuy  Offline
master
S

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
Roller lifters have been in OEM applications since the late 80's. How much more OE life span can you get? I'm either going to put mechanical rollers in mine or figure out a way to mount the stock magnum spider and yokes in my LA block so I can use stock magnum lifters, or I may just build a stroker magnum, I haven't decided yet.


No roller lifters on a big block. Hence my comment on retrofits.


I want my fair share
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Dcuda69] #3079801
09/22/22 11:17 PM
09/22/22 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
master
SomeCarGuy  Offline
master
S

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,510
Someplace you aren't
Originally Posted by Dcuda69
Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
How often do you need to have the roller lifters rebuilt in these retrofit applications? Not all of us need that last few horsepower and want an oem type lifespan. I wouldn’t want to pick up a new winter maintenance item unless it’s a last resort. I can’t imagine a stock rebuild would net out much by going roller anyway.


I think that would depend on how many miles you put on and how aggressive the cam is. I only put a few hundred miles/year on and check lash every few years...zero issues(mine has been together roughly 10 yrs). Going roller wasn't about every last HP more about OEM longevity. Every pushrod V8 built since the mid 80s has been roller cam equipped......millions of miles proving rollers work.


Cool. Sign me up for oem quality lifters on my 440. I’m well aware of when the rollers became common in new cars.


I want my fair share
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3079805
09/22/22 11:31 PM
09/22/22 11:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
master
Dcuda69  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,671
WI
Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
Originally Posted by Dcuda69
Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
How often do you need to have the roller lifters rebuilt in these retrofit applications? Not all of us need that last few horsepower and want an oem type lifespan. I wouldn’t want to pick up a new winter maintenance item unless it’s a last resort. I can’t imagine a stock rebuild would net out much by going roller anyway.


I think that would depend on how many miles you put on and how aggressive the cam is. I only put a few hundred miles/year on and check lash every few years...zero issues(mine has been together roughly 10 yrs). Going roller wasn't about every last HP more about OEM longevity. Every pushrod V8 built since the mid 80s has been roller cam equipped......millions of miles proving rollers work.


Cool. Sign me up for oem quality lifters on my 440. I’m well aware of when the rollers became common in new cars.


Pick a OEM style mild hyd roller and enjoy! Mine is a street solid and has been good.....242/248 @.050 and .570 lift in a 470 low deck

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: DaveRS23] #3079884
09/23/22 10:19 AM
09/23/22 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,126
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
master
DaveRS23  Offline
master
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,126
Benton, IL.
A couple of thoughts here; first I see some amount of debate on whether bushings or bearings are better in roller lifters. And that debate can be as divisive as the flat vs roller debate. And there is also the debate on inspections and rebuilds of the roller lifters, at least in some applications.

And second; to compare the mild stock applications of roller lifters in modern engines designed for them to our retrofitting of them in our engines with typically much faster ramps, heavier valve trains and much stiffer springs is apples to oranges.

And I will add one more thing that I see happen; our old dinosaurs usually sit for some length of time between starts. So the engine is relatively dry of oil and it takes a bit of time for the oil to get everywhere. For the FT cams that do make it through the break in process, this can be a slow death by a thousand cuts. I just wonder if more guys had a means of pre-lubing their engine before cold starts if there would be less cam failures further down the road. It is something that I always do on my FT cam Hemi and so far, so good after 6 years.


KOS
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: MarkZ] #3079886
09/23/22 10:24 AM
09/23/22 10:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
Missouri
R
randavis Offline
member
randavis  Offline
member
R

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
Missouri
Originally Posted by MarkZ
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
I had two Comp Cams mild hydraulic flat tappets wipe lobes within 20 minutes. I've been doing this for 45 years as a professional so I know what I'm doing. I did everything right and they still wiped lobes, the Summit cam before them had no problems. Comp replaced both of them and I returned the new cams to Summit or Jegs for credit and went roller. No more wiped lobes, but retrofit hydraulic rollers were a whole nother fuster cluck and I bought Morels because they are supposed to be good lifters and they are the same height as the stock magnum lifters. I swapped to magnum heads at the same time. Anyway 3 of the Morels weren't machined properly and wouldn't oil the rockers. Finally got that fixed, after paying for two more pairs of lifters plus overnight shipping, again. They are still noisy though.


I built my first aftermarket roller motor a couple of years ago. Comp retrofit roller lifters and a cam. Sounds like a sewing machine. Wasn't prepared for how noisy it would be.


I had a similar experience. I had a 440 based 512 built with a Comp hydraulic roller. It was so noisy, you could hear them with open headers. The engine builder didn't beleive me, so I trailered the car 100 miles to his shop and fired it up. He said that he had never had that happen before and offered to replace the Comp lifters with Morels or put solid rollers on it. He didn't know if the Morels would be quieter, but he said he was confident that the solids would not be that noisy. I went with the solids. They are still noisy, but not as bad as the hydraulics. He did that on his own dime. I believe he told me he set the valve lash to .010. I haven't run the valves since he built it. That is on the "to do list" for this winter.


74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI.
New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: randavis] #3079902
09/23/22 10:58 AM
09/23/22 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,438
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,438
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Here are two pics of the inside of the Morels. In the second pic you can see where the machined channel intersects the oil hole in the body. In the first pic you can see the channel doesn't meet the oil hole.

20200529_135837_resized[74].jpg20200529_135851_resized[73].jpg

I raise chickens, so I am literally a chicken tender.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one newer one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Guitar Jones] #3079952
09/23/22 01:13 PM
09/23/22 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,240
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,240
Fulton County, PA
Three words...

Industrial Opportunity Partners


Comp Cams started in 1975, Did their people all of a sudden forget how to do it?

Last edited by CMcAllister; 09/23/22 01:15 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: CMcAllister] #3079985
09/23/22 02:09 PM
09/23/22 02:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,987
Motor City
6
6PKRTSE Offline
master
6PKRTSE  Offline
master
6

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,987
Motor City
We always get our hyd f.t. cams ground on steel cores at an extra cost or pay for the extra nitride process on cast cams.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #3080002
09/23/22 03:00 PM
09/23/22 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,658
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,658
Kalispell Mt.
I have been using them mostly but also other brands for 30 years and have had zero failures, I think a lot of them are people just throwing them in and hoping for the best. I ALWAYS make sure every single lifter is rotating on the stand turning the engine by hand and if they don't twist as it goes over the lobe you can do a few things to make it happen... for starters I clean the lifter bore with a wire brush (after pressure washing and degreasing the entire block and once it is dry use the wire brush so not even flash rust can be in the bore)in a drill as any tiny burr or rust spec can keep them from turning and I almost never have an issue after this step, next thing to do if there is a stubborn one is switch them from one bore to another, sometimes the combination of the exact lifter crown, lobe taper, bore position don't get one rotating but moving them around will usually get them rotating. Other things I do to theoretically help anyhow is I always make sure everything is super ultra mega clean and use STP on the foot and lobes of the cam and besides that I just use whatever oil I can get cheapest in the weight I want, I also polish both of the tips of the pushrod as shiny as I can possilby get them so they don't have any chance of resisting rotation, always prime the engine before IMMEDIETLY BEFORE not days ahead of time! first start so the sides of the lifter are well lubed and not resisting rotation and it will build back pressure there as soon as it fires as that film between the lifter and bore allows it to rotate easier. If you are running a very fast rate lobe use dychem on the lifter to make sure it is not hitting the edge of the lifter, if it does you need your block bushed or a less aggressive lobe.

I have also used a few used cams and they can be harder to get them to rotate and sometimes switching lifter bore around will get them rotating on the engine stand, the lifter bore in your new engine may not be at the exact same angle as the old block they were installed and broke in on so keeping them on the original lobe don't mean a whole lot and in my opinion it is more important to find a lobe it rotates on than it is to keep it on the original lobe.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: CMcAllister] #3080132
09/23/22 09:27 PM
09/23/22 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,856
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,856
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Three words...

Industrial Opportunity Partners


Comp Cams started in 1975, Did their people all of a sudden forget how to do it?


No they were likely let go for cheaper entry level people with no long term knowledge by Industrial Opportunity Partners
if one thinks about it, a 25 year old college grad that was hired on in 1982 is now 65 and making $$ plus bennies.
IOP says we can get 2 or more for what we're paying the old fart. So out the door all that experience goes. Eager beaver new hire want's to make a name for himself so they start tweaking things to save cost and make themselves look good. yeah there's some problems cropping up but the focus is on Current technology and $$$$$ so no one's really paying attention or cares.
twocents

Last edited by TJP; 09/23/22 09:36 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1