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Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: RTSrunner] #3078809
09/19/22 05:25 PM
09/19/22 05:25 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Edelbrock hasn’t used powdered metal seats in any heads in at least a couple of years.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3078854
09/19/22 08:41 PM
09/19/22 08:41 PM
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furious70 Offline
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I've got a manual steering box for a C body...2 actually up
I thought I might need to fit turbos but I made do.
Borgeson box is a popular swap now, we put one in my brother's charger to not have to beat up the headers.


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: B1MAXX] #3078881
09/19/22 10:03 PM
09/19/22 10:03 PM
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Posts: 667
st.louis,mo.
dart games Offline
mopar
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st.louis,mo.
b1 heads are junk stay far away from them.had 3 motors with them.ran faster with indy sr heads.my next motor will have indy heads.plus indy heads are racer friendly.dont need special everything like b-1 heads.also b-1 heads are heavy.b-1 heads are not fot the budget racer

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3078931
09/20/22 01:44 AM
09/20/22 01:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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feets  Offline
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Irving, TX
KG did my Eddy Performer RPM heads. The work looked good except for a little clean up needed around the valve guides.
I don't have before and after flow bench comparison.

If the E-street heads are the same as RPM minus the plug angle mine might be a good example of the work.

I had to use 4.5" bore head gaskets to clear the chamber. That means there's a bit of a step down into the 4.375 bore.

20210418_162723.jpg20210418_162759.jpg20210418_162935.jpg20210418_163010.jpg

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: feets] #3078999
09/20/22 11:23 AM
09/20/22 11:23 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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For a stock stroke combo, if going with the KG porting on Ede heads...... I’d forgo the chamber porting.
They don’t need to be made any bigger.

As a footnote....... new, assembled, unported B1BS heads are a touch over $3k now.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: furious70] #3079094
09/20/22 05:29 PM
09/20/22 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,156
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Good call, I don't think I want to give up any compression. The cnc port work looks good but Dwayne's flow bench will tell the tale! Will be really curious to see if their program is as good as what Modern used on the Stealths and Edelbrocks.

Originally Posted by furious70
I've got a manual steering box for a C body...2 actually up


I'm worried with how nose heavy the car is that the manual box would be a pain to steer, but I'm tempted for the weight savings alone. I drove a '67 Imperial with no power steering belt for about 3 months but that was absolutely brutal, lol.

It looks like the steering box isn't the tight spot though, the starter is. I need to pick up the TTI 1 7/8" headers to see how different they are compared to the Hookers.

Thanks guys!


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079191
09/21/22 12:30 AM
09/21/22 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
I've got the TTi C body headers but the engine is still on the stand.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079248
09/21/22 10:29 AM
09/21/22 10:29 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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The MCH program removes a pretty substantial amount of material.
The intake port ends up with 15cc more volume than a TF240(240 vs 255).

At this point, I don’t know what the runner volume of the KG program is....... but I’ll measure one when they get here.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3079269
09/21/22 11:50 AM
09/21/22 11:50 AM
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Loudoun County, VA
Do the KG CNC heads get a better valve job than the OOB E heads come with? That's a helluva sharp lip under (above the valve) the exhaust seat in the pics above... sawzall

Last edited by Brad_Haak; 09/21/22 11:51 AM.

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Brad_Haak] #3079280
09/21/22 12:08 PM
09/21/22 12:08 PM
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Posts: 14,478
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Let’s just say, regarding the heads in the pics........ I think there is “some” additional flow available by finessing what’s going on around the valve seats.
Whether that ended up being 1cfm or 10cfm could only be determined by testing.

Assuming the valve seat config doesn’t hold it back, it certainly “looks” like the intake port is 300cfm capable.

I’m pretty sure the ones coming to me will still have the Ede VJ.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: dart games] #3079347
09/21/22 04:04 PM
09/21/22 04:04 PM
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Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by 69b1dart
b1 heads are junk stay far away from them.had 3 motors with them.ran faster with indy sr heads.my next motor will have indy heads.plus indy heads are racer friendly.dont need special everything like b-1 heads.also b-1 heads are heavy.b-1 heads are not fot the budget racer
confused shruggy
I've had the opposite results on B1 heads compare to Indy SR, Indy 440-1 with their stock rocker arms single shaft set ups and a lot better results comparing CNC ported 440- 1 to a set of original B1 with their single shaft set up on engine dyno testing as well as at the track racing them : confused: work:
I had the same thing(results) on a 426 street hemi motor compared to B1 motors, blown 484 C.I. 426 street Hemi motor with a Little Field 10:71 roots type blower dyno tested made 924 HP at 7300 RPM after a lot of tuning on the dual Carb Shop 1050 CFM blower carbs compared to a cast B1 intake with a single Dam Best 1450 CFM carb making 920 HP at 7000 RPM shruggy
Flow tests reveal 370 CFM at 28.0 inches at .700 valve lift on the 440-1 intakes and the B1 heads on the same bench flowed 430 CFM at .700, .800 and at .900 lift work
Sorry for your bad results, who prepared your heads?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079348
09/21/22 04:10 PM
09/21/22 04:10 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl


I drove a '67 Imperial with no power steering belt for about 3 months but that was absolutely brutal, lol.


Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079350
09/21/22 04:13 PM
09/21/22 04:13 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted by Blusmbl


I drove a '67 Imperial with no power steering belt for about 3 months but that was absolutely brutal, lol.


Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.
iagree scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079433
09/21/22 09:18 PM
09/21/22 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,156
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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300 seems like a realistic number, compared to what 440 Source was claiming for their CNC port jobs, where it was up in the 320 range.

I'm guessing 300 is a solid 40 cfm above what I have now, so the 2 hp per cfm rule would be an 80 horse gain on my shortblock, but I'm going to be limited by potentially the carb and possibly the headers if I don't upgrade... so it's maybe a 50 hp improvement going to ported Edelbrocks over my 906's. That should get me 3 tenths according to the Wallace calculators, and I'd be happy with that.

Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.


True, between the p/s ratio being quicker and also still trying to move fluid around in the box, it's not a fair comparison. I have gone from power to manual on my '68 Charger though, and it wasn't bad. This has an easy 300+ extra pounds on the nose so I'm not sure how much worse it would be.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079444
09/21/22 09:57 PM
09/21/22 09:57 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Pattison Texas
if you do go with 440 source heads, as was said earlier in this discussion , get a bare set, the source valves were not up to what I would use ever again.


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079579
09/22/22 11:01 AM
09/22/22 11:01 AM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted by Blusmbl


I drove a '67 Imperial with no power steering belt for about 3 months but that was absolutely brutal, lol.


Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.

That's it guys, hit the gym...let's go

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: HardcoreB] #3079758
09/22/22 08:48 PM
09/22/22 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,156
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
That's it guys, hit the gym...let's go


laugh2

Alright, I'll be totally upfront, I think I wasted everybody's time with this- I'm sorry. Did more investigating on the TTI 1 7/8" headers and there is a special note on the C body fitment guide that they work with angle plug heads, and list Indy EZ's, the angle plug Edelbrock RPM's, and Trick Flows. The B body notes indicate only their 2" headers fit with angled plugs, but the C body 1 7/8" ones do.

If the 1 3/4" headers are going to hold a head swap back, and the new headers fit angled plug heads, I really don't think I can justify a CNC ported Stealth or E-Street when an OOTB Trick Flow 240 is a better head in pretty much every measurable category and near the same price point, plus have room to grow if I ever go with a 512 kit in the future.

Last edited by Blusmbl; 09/23/22 08:52 AM.

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079768
09/22/22 09:05 PM
09/22/22 09:05 PM
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PA.
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
300 seems like a realistic number, compared to what 440 Source was claiming for their CNC port jobs, where it was up in the 320 range.

I'm guessing 300 is a solid 40 cfm above what I have now, so the 2 hp per cfm rule would be an 80 horse gain on my shortblock, but I'm going to be limited by potentially the carb and possibly the headers if I don't upgrade... so it's maybe a 50 hp improvement going to ported Edelbrocks over my 906's. That should get me 3 tenths according to the Wallace calculators, and I'd be happy with that.

Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.


True, between the p/s ratio being quicker and also still trying to move fluid around in the box, it's not a fair comparison. I have gone from power to manual on my '68 Charger though, and it wasn't bad. This has an easy 300+ extra pounds on the nose so I'm not sure how much worse it would be.





The 2 horsepower per cfm is doable but keep in mind if the heads are flowing 300 cfm@.700 and you are running a .550 lift cam you aren’t using the available horsepower.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079818
09/23/22 01:54 AM
09/23/22 01:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 265
Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
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Anchorage, Alaska
FWIW, I'm using tti 1 7/8" headers with Trick Flow heads in a B-body. The TTI headers were a huge improvement over the Hedman 1 3/4" headers RE fitting around the spark plugs


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3079908
09/23/22 11:19 AM
09/23/22 11:19 AM
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Carson City, NV
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Good call, I don't think I want to give up any compression. The cnc port work looks good but Dwayne's flow bench will tell the tale! Will be really curious to see if their program is as good as what Modern used on the Stealths and Edelbrocks.



We do have the CNC ported Stealth heads in stock with Modern's ports. Cost is $999 per head.

https://store.440source.com/Stealth...EMBLED-SINGLE-HEAD/productinfo/200-1080/

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