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Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... #3078930
09/20/22 01:22 AM
09/20/22 01:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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I got a call back from Wilson Manifolds.

I had sent my old fabricobbled tunnel rammy efi intake thing to them for professional amusement.
Their final determination says it is the wrong piece for my mild 541. They suggested a Performer RPM converted to EFI and one of their 4bbl style throttle bodies.

The quote for parts and labor plus port matching to the template I sent is $2500.

The quote for parts and labor plus a full port job on the manifold is $3600.

Seeing that this 541 is a relatively low power and low rpm piece built for cruising it's hard to justify the extra $1100 for what little gain I'd see. Yes, it's a big inch motor but I doubt it'll top 550 hp with the new intake. Looking at the info I have, the extra work would likely bring 12-15 more hp over the port match.

Am I wrong? Would you drop the extra coin on it?

I'm thinking that if it's not doing what I want I could always send it back for more work.

Initial dyno test attached, valve float and all.

FB_IMG_1658323001507.jpg

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3078940
09/20/22 05:57 AM
09/20/22 05:57 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Honestly, I would use an open plenum single plane like stated and a 90 elbow and a single blade throttle body....Super easy to port match yourself.....

003847_v1_20100331-2030196744.jpgs-l640-2602381562.jpg1_grande-1220272483.jpg486401_123MM_TB_ELBOW_COMBO_-800x800_grande-1308734030.jpg

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3078959
09/20/22 08:19 AM
09/20/22 08:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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an8sec70cuda  Offline
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Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
No. Wilson's prices are outrageous.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: Dragula] #3078961
09/20/22 08:24 AM
09/20/22 08:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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One thing I like about going to a 4bbl style throttle body is the ease of installation. I spent quite a bit of time fussing with the kick down linkage with my old intake. Air cleaner installation is also much easier and I don't have to worry about the intake tube interference with the engine accessories such as AC.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3078965
09/20/22 08:59 AM
09/20/22 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Warren, MI
did they say why your tunnel ram was the wrong intake for the build? id venture to say your tunnel ram has longer runners than the performer rpm.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3078980
09/20/22 10:22 AM
09/20/22 10:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094
central texas
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krautrock Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,094
central texas
the extra $1100 for full port is what you are asking about?
i doubt i'd drop that money.

The $2500 for the manifold converted to EFI and their throttle body you are going to go for? what's their throttle body??

Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: krautrock] #3079010
09/20/22 12:10 PM
09/20/22 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
$3600 is a bit rich for my blood.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3079011
09/20/22 12:11 PM
09/20/22 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
If it was me making that decision I would be choosing between

option A. purchasing the manifold and throttle body and matching it myself

option B. paying them to do a full port job.


Just paying them to do a port match I can easily do myself seems silly.


On the other hand if I really was the one building this engine for myself I would pick a good single plane and 4bbl throttle body, may give up a few LBS TQ very low but they have the best look and a few more HP up top won't hurt, not like you can really use 650+ TQ that is gonna be brutal on U-joints, tires, trans, rear end... hope you got a dana 60 at least. You plan to drive this thing a lot correct?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3079015
09/20/22 12:17 PM
09/20/22 12:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,072
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

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Loudoun County, VA
What is the expected improvement in performance for $2500 and $3600, respectively?

I'm probably the last person who should comment about somebody dropping a lot of coin for minimal improvement in performance... but I don't see the ROI here at either price point.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: Brad_Haak] #3079035
09/20/22 01:18 PM
09/20/22 01:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,678
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
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W. Kentucky
Does a fuel injected engine need a dual plane intake?

Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: justinp61] #3079040
09/20/22 01:31 PM
09/20/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Weddington, N.C.
If Larry Smith is still working I'd recommend him. He used to do the NASCAR mopars for Penske when they went 1-2 at Daytona.

He did my '337 on my 517 low deck chapman max wedge, super nice work and the motor revs like a comp eliminator small block


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: justinp61] #3079041
09/20/22 01:34 PM
09/20/22 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
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CKessel Offline
mopar
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mopar
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Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
How about something like mine?

1AB46F0B-06B6-499C-803F-7ACF7CA9952A.jpeg4A8CA24B-AA65-48C7-8099-DDFD15DA70F9.jpeg

Carl Kessel
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: CKessel] #3079053
09/20/22 02:01 PM
09/20/22 02:01 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 702
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
super stock
INTMD8  Offline
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Posts: 702
Lake Villa Il
Anything I've ran on the dyno with an elbow vs 4 barrel TB or turning the air a sharp 90 on a 4 barrel throttle body kills power. (Just look at manifold negative pressure as rpm increases)

Not sure what the inside of your custom intake looks like. Wouldn't have any idea of what the power difference could be considering the lack of valve control on the initial test.

May have missed it buy why not just use the Edelbrock 7144 for similar layout?









Last edited by INTMD8; 09/20/22 02:02 PM.

69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: INTMD8] #3079058
09/20/22 02:13 PM
09/20/22 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Nother

Last edited by Dragula; 09/20/22 02:17 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079064
09/20/22 02:29 PM
09/20/22 02:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 371
NH, USA
toddinNH Offline
Egghead
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Egghead

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Posts: 371
NH, USA
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
No. Wilson's prices are outrageous.

x1000

Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: toddinNH] #3079066
09/20/22 02:31 PM
09/20/22 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,629
Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Oakland, MI
I gotta believe you xan find a lot better bang for the buck $2500 or $3600.

You'd be better off adding a turbo. It would be cheaper! Lol

Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: dizuster] #3079068
09/20/22 02:37 PM
09/20/22 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but the 2500 plan includes the rpm manifold, the 4bbl throttle body, and the necessary parts and labor for the fuel rail conversion, and a port match.

How much would that stuff cost if you bought the parts and had the manifold mods done “locally”?

Of course, the cheapest option is to just put the current intake back on.

The bottom of the powerband was fine with it on the motor, and I have to believe there would be “some” improvement in power up top with the new valve springs.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: fast68plymouth] #3079198
09/21/22 12:43 AM
09/21/22 12:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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Irving, TX
The $2500 includes $395 for the intake, $905 for the low height throttle body with idle air control, intake air temperature sensor, and idle air control. They're modifying the intake for port injection, and building fuel rails. The port match added $400 and they already have my port template.
That means the labor for efi conversion with fuel rails is $700.

They think the runners on the current intake are too long, ports are too small, injectors protrude too deeply into the runners, and the plenum is not properly shaped.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: feets] #3079205
09/21/22 03:35 AM
09/21/22 03:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Did you call around to Hogans, CFE and some of the other custom manifold makers? scope up twocents
I did and went with Hogans for my next EFI supercharge manifold up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Wilson Manifolds. Tempting but... [Re: Cab_Burge] #3079231
09/21/22 08:32 AM
09/21/22 08:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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Irving, TX
I called Wilson and had a good conversation with them on the phone. They were willing to spend a little time doing that without cutting me off. After that, I sent them my manifold to look into modifications. The evaluation of my piece is what lead to the new intake being built.

Wilson products have a good reputation and the people struck me as open, honest, and friendly. That means as much to me as the product they sell. They invested in me so I invested in them.

There are others out there that could do similar work on a similar product. In this case the people earned my business.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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