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Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: poorboy] #3076421
09/11/22 09:48 PM
09/11/22 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,725
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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Originally Posted by poorboy
AH, Moparts strikes again! It happens with nearly every question concerning an electrical problem.

We have competing experts saying the other guy is wrong and his testing methods won't work, but mine will.

Is there any wonder why non-electrical people are confused about electrical problems? I've done a lot of automotive electrical repairs, but you guys can confuse me.

The experts argue with each other on how its suppose to be tested and figured out, and all the guy wants to to solve his problem. Who is he suppose to believe?

How about, if YOU have actually SOLVED the particular problem on a similar car the OP has, write a step by step process. If you personally have not solved the problem, don't post. This should not be a location to test theory.


This is how it works. Unless you have some kind of drain (load) in the system the light won't light because it isn't a complete circuit. How do you find the problem? I already answered that. Get a wiring diagram and systematically start disconnecting anything that is a potential load in the electrical system. Yes, it's a PITA but it can be done, I've done it. Now it would be nice if there was some kind of cook book approach but every vehicle has it's quirks and it's own selection of electrical accessories. So every vehicle is going to be different. Some problems aren't solved with an "insert tab A into slot B" approach. This is one of them.

Just a comment, two rules of thumb, incandescent electric lights are current limiters, spark gaps are voltage limiters.

Battery Drain.jpg

"Only the best and brightest"
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: second 70] #3076575
09/12/22 12:29 PM
09/12/22 12:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,849
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by second 70
I saw the reply's from some people I respect on here and decided I needed to do more research. I'm always willing to listen and learn and I learned something new today.

Since 99.9% of my work is AC I needed to do some checking. Here's what I found was causing the difference of opinion.

Answer a DC test light is a tool with a normal open circuit that needs voltage to close to turn on light. So no it will not complete a circuit without voltage. Where an AC test light is just a closed circuit and will complete the circuit. ( yes I know it's a light bulb in a socket but that's all an ac test light is and i don't ever use them. I always use a meter).

The photo's show the ohm's and open circuit on the test tool.

I believe this source is still good info and would use a meter because almost ever car now has some draw (Clock,memory on radio & drivers ect.) that could turn the light on partially. Be sure and put the red lead in amp hole and set meter to DC amps. https://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain




nothing to add, but i have the exact test light [black handle, serrated bulb case, wire color/size and clamp] you show, and have had that item for almost 55 years. biggrin
beer

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: moparx] #3076627
09/12/22 02:24 PM
09/12/22 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,513
central il.
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second 70 Offline
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by second 70
I saw the reply's from some people I respect on here and decided I needed to do more research. I'm always willing to listen and learn and I learned something new today.

Since 99.9% of my work is AC I needed to do some checking. Here's what I found was causing the difference of opinion.

Answer a DC test light is a tool with a normal open circuit that needs voltage to close to turn on light. So no it will not complete a circuit without voltage. Where an AC test light is just a closed circuit and will complete the circuit. ( yes I know it's a light bulb in a socket but that's all an ac test light is and i don't ever use them. I always use a meter).

The photo's show the ohm's and open circuit on the test tool.

I believe this source is still good info and would use a meter because almost ever car now has some draw (Clock,memory on radio & drivers ect.) that could turn the light on partially. Be sure and put the red lead in amp hole and set meter to DC amps. https://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain




nothing to add, but i have the exact test light [black handle, serrated bulb case, wire color/size and clamp] you show, and have had that item for almost 55 years. biggrin
beer




Update I was WRONG!

I cleaned the ends on the tester and it's a closed circuit as well. The meter didn't have enough power to overcome the dirty connection but the 12 volt battery did. And yes it's old as heck. Lol

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: second 70] #3076717
09/12/22 07:48 PM
09/12/22 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,174
Omaha Ne
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now that we've stopped peeing over the fence has the OP found the issue yet ? shruggy

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3076760
09/12/22 09:35 PM
09/12/22 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,427
Annapolis, MD, USA
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Google this> https://www.google.com/search?q=dan+sullivan+loadpro
His Youtube videos are great. You'll learn a lot. His invention is pretty awesome.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3076768
09/12/22 09:58 PM
09/12/22 09:58 PM
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Posts: 14,031
Whoa-is-mia
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I don't know much about 78's yet check every relay, one by one, disconnect the hot lead going to it and and check the test light for off. Sounds like there is a chance wire chafe between hot to ground, or hot to another wire (or more).



Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: srt] #3076809
09/13/22 06:59 AM
09/13/22 06:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 66
IL
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83hurstguy Offline
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Another handy tool to use is a non-contact (inductive) ammeter. I picked one up on Amazon for $40 when chasing a draw and it has been consistent and pretty accurate. All you have to do is put the clamp around a wire (or wiring harness) and it will tell you instantly how much current is flowing within, so you can chase where it's headed.

Price went up a few bucks, URL was too long for software to recognize, here's the link:
Amazon Inductive Ammeter Link

Last edited by 83hurstguy; 09/13/22 06:59 AM.
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: 83hurstguy] #3076951
09/13/22 02:26 PM
09/13/22 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,150
N.E. OHIO, USA
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I kind of skipped through all of the posts and suggestions but I have a question for the OP. In your first post you state it's a new battery, did you have this battery draining issue before you put a new battery in? What if it's a bad (new) battery? Just saying.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: A12] #3077022
09/13/22 06:27 PM
09/13/22 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,796
Harriman NY
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It takes amperage to light the bulb, small parasitic draws .050 mA will not light the bulb but can drain the batt. over time,there is a large amp.draw somewhere,use a DVOM to ck.amp.draw so you know just how much actually is being pulled as long it's not greater then the DVOMs fuse,then you will need a shunt,but the good old test light between the cable & batt.works just fine, me personally I would be taking a close look at the no longer utilized lean burn wiring & the elect. ign. conversion.

Last edited by 71GTX471; 09/13/22 07:32 PM.
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: A12] #3077209
09/14/22 12:19 PM
09/14/22 12:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,513
Fulton County, PA
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Originally Posted by A12
I kind of skipped through all of the posts and suggestions but I have a question for the OP. In your first post you state it's a new battery, did you have this battery draining issue before you put a new battery in? What if it's a bad (new) battery? Just saying.


While it is true that we have recently seen batteries that show 12v on a voltmeter but crap out under load, only to return to 12V, the test light draw test is not a battery. There is current flowing somewhere that it shouldn't be.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: CMcAllister] #3077218
09/14/22 12:40 PM
09/14/22 12:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,553
Kirkland, Washington
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Just checked my two test lights:
Older Snap On incandescent: 45.7 ma
Newer digital LED: 5.6 ma

A test light is a very good tool for parasitic draw tests.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: TJP] #3077295
09/14/22 06:56 PM
09/14/22 06:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,168
Canada
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Originally Posted by TJP
now that we've stopped peeing over the fence has the OP found the issue yet ? shruggy


No, I have not found the issue yet. It's got me baffled.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: A12] #3077296
09/14/22 06:59 PM
09/14/22 06:59 PM
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Canada
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Originally Posted by A12
I kind of skipped through all of the posts and suggestions but I have a question for the OP. In your first post you state it's a new battery, did you have this battery draining issue before you put a new battery in? What if it's a bad (new) battery? Just saying.


Yes, the owner changed the battery because of it draining, and it still drains with the new battery.
He purchased the car from an estate recently, so we don't know any of it's previous history. But it is in very nice original condition

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3077302
09/14/22 07:24 PM
09/14/22 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,236
Southern Maryland
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Not a clue if this is pertinent, Folks have a saturn, same problem. Ignition switch. You could pull the key out and think it was all off but it wasn't actually in the off position. Probably doesn't apply here.


67 Barracuda FB 69 Superbee "Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3077306
09/14/22 07:32 PM
09/14/22 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,150
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Originally Posted by demon
Originally Posted by A12
I kind of skipped through all of the posts and suggestions but I have a question for the OP. In your first post you state it's a new battery, did you have this battery draining issue before you put a new battery in? What if it's a bad (new) battery? Just saying.


Yes, the owner changed the battery because of it draining, and it still drains with the new battery.
He purchased the car from an estate recently, so we don't know any of it's previous history. But it is in very nice original condition


Original radio or aftermarket with a power antenna?

Something is in there that is not fused and possibly something installed by the previous owner or something the original owner didn't know about.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3077684
09/15/22 08:57 PM
09/15/22 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,174
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by demon
Originally Posted by A12
I kind of skipped through all of the posts and suggestions but I have a question for the OP. In your first post you state it's a new battery, did you have this battery draining issue before you put a new battery in? What if it's a bad (new) battery? Just saying.


Yes, the owner changed the battery because of it draining, and it still drains with the new battery.
He purchased the car from an estate recently, so we don't know any of it's previous history. But it is in very nice original condition


You Are going to have to invest in an DVM or amp meter (digital preferably). in series is most accurate but the inductive pickup ones should suffice as well. I picked up one of these recently as my fluke was limited to 10 A without it's external probe which died. Nice meter for the $$. Do note there are different models as cheap as 25.00 . if one learns how to use it a little at at time it will become and indispensable tool METER LINKY

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: TJP] #3079553
09/22/22 09:07 AM
09/22/22 09:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,168
Canada
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demon Offline OP
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I gave up on finding the battery draw. The customer is taking it to an auto electric specialist.

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: demon] #3079598
09/22/22 10:36 AM
09/22/22 10:36 AM
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Omaha Ne
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frown Do keep us posted beer

Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: TJP] #3079673
09/22/22 02:28 PM
09/22/22 02:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,561
Someplace you aren't
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I’m surprised how this played out. Seems there is unfused power and has to be one of a handful of factory things or some aftermarket item that could be traced to a hot spot.


I want my fair share
Re: battery draining. Can't find the draw [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3079682
09/22/22 03:07 PM
09/22/22 03:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,463
541 slobovia
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I parted a 71 Dart years ago that had a fried underdash harness. I kept it for redoing the one in my 70 and when I opened up the fried one, I found the brake warning circuit wired wrong.
The downleg wire after the light was only connected to the e-brake switch, but the low fluid circuit was joined at the hot side.
Imagine trying to troubleshoot a hot wire smell that only occurs when the brake fluid is low, much less connecting those two dots!

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