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carbs, clutch and two step launch question #3074277
09/04/22 06:52 PM
09/04/22 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,476
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline OP
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Hemi_Joel  Offline OP
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When launching off a 2 step with a carbureted engine, which is better:

Mat the gas to bring the RPM up on to the rev limiter prior to launch and then launch with no accelerator pump shot?

Or apply just enough throttle to bring the RPM up on to the rev limiter prior to launch and then mat the gas upon launch, and get some pump shot- into the motor?

Thanks,
Joel


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3074286
09/04/22 07:28 PM
09/04/22 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,096
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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If I can't get the car to hook hard I leave on the floor mat becaise it doesnt seem to need the pump shot when it is black tracking. If I can make it stick reasonably well I have better luck setting the two step at say 5200, holding it at 5k and then matting the pedal on the bottom of the last yellow bulb. This technique seems to mitigate a bog especially when running (yawn) n/a.

This technique has also served me particularly well when using a nitrous kit activated by a WOT switch with a tine bit of delay programmed in (i.e. .1-.2 seconds)

Lots of variables at plat here especially driving style, clutch manners, power/weight ratio and traction. Many look at these variables as confusing and time consuming to dial in but I try to use them at my advantage the best I can wrap my head around what the car is doing. As we say "you will be the first one to know" lol



Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Jeremiah] #3074295
09/04/22 08:14 PM
09/04/22 08:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Push the trans brake button, foot to the floor, 2-step holds engine at set RPM, lights come down, let go of button....The engine will not care as the boosters take over while on the brake.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Dragula] #3074360
09/05/22 01:41 AM
09/05/22 01:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,586
Topeka Kansas
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ksj Offline
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Topeka Kansas
He has three pedals.

Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3074398
09/05/22 08:40 AM
09/05/22 08:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
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oldiron Offline
mopar
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New Hampshire, USA
When I race pro tree I go to the floor. The car stays down and the reaction time is better. But it tends to hit the tires harder, When I race sportsman tree, I just touch the 2 step. Seems easier on the car


66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge
New New Best: 10.56 @129
68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: ksj] #3074438
09/05/22 11:41 AM
09/05/22 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by ksj
He has three pedals.


Push clutch in, hold the two step button on, foot to the floor on gas pedal, and I assume you have a way of keeping it in the beams.....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Dragula] #3074692
09/06/22 09:27 AM
09/06/22 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019
MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019
MN
Always to the floor...


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: JERICOGTX] #3074771
09/06/22 01:31 PM
09/06/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,498
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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CMcAllister  Offline
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Fulton County, PA
If you aren't going to leave with the gas pedal on the mat, why use a 2-step?

Bump in with the line loc on and the RPMs up some - 2000-2500. Top bulb comes on, pedal on the mat. Adjust the 2 step RPM to where you need it.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: CMcAllister] #3074876
09/06/22 05:44 PM
09/06/22 05:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,476
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline OP
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Hemi_Joel  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
If you aren't going to leave with the gas pedal on the mat, why use a 2-step?

Bump in with the line loc on and the RPMs up some - 2000-2500. Top bulb comes on, pedal on the mat. Adjust the 2 step RPM to where you need it.


You can use a 2 step to have a 100% consistent launch RPM. It doesn't take wide open throttle to hold the unloaded motor at launch RPM. So you can mat the gas upon launch, so you get a pump shot. I'll just have to test.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3074912
09/06/22 08:11 PM
09/06/22 08:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Interesting topic for sure up I always floor it on first yellow and don't let off until the stripe. One of the best stick drivers I know still doesn't use a 2-step at all. He just leaves like the old days, on the mat right before the launch and pulling gears on an old Nash box.
He races a 64 Galaxie wagon with an FE engine.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Dragula] #3074917
09/06/22 08:20 PM
09/06/22 08:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 145
Ohio
shinysidup Offline
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Ohio
Quite a few of the SS/AH cars that are stick have the two step activated by the clutch pedal.

Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: CMcAllister] #3074941
09/06/22 09:17 PM
09/06/22 09:17 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
It is a common strategy now with drive by wire throttle bodies to limit throttle opening on the two step. Clutch cars will have an “arm” switch for the two step with either a clutch switch or clutch position sensor activating/ deactivating the two step. You can program the system to limit throttle opening to any angle you choose to get you close, but slightly beyond your launch rpm. The ignition then zeros in on the desired rpm. This is much smoother and easier on the engine. The driver arms the system, clutch pedal activates the two step, stomp the throttle pedal to the floor, and the engine floats at the desired rpm until the clutch pedal is released.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: TRENDZ] #3074945
09/06/22 09:27 PM
09/06/22 09:27 PM
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Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
This is one of the Fueltech setup screens. you see that you can set the throttle angle on the two step.

B519A88A-8A29-48CF-80A5-A323D6EFCAEB.jpeg

"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: TRENDZ] #3075089
09/07/22 11:20 AM
09/07/22 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,476
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline OP
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Hemi_Joel  Offline OP
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Minnesota
Interesting stuff!


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: carbs, clutch and two step launch question [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3075537
09/08/22 03:21 PM
09/08/22 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019
MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
If you aren't going to leave with the gas pedal on the mat, why use a 2-step?

Bump in with the line loc on and the RPMs up some - 2000-2500. Top bulb comes on, pedal on the mat. Adjust the 2 step RPM to where you need it.


You can use a 2 step to have a 100% consistent launch RPM. It doesn't take wide open throttle to hold the unloaded motor at launch RPM. So you can mat the gas upon launch, so you get a pump shot. I'll just have to test.


And we know you'll be out testing at LEAST 6 times before Drag Week, if not more...


69 GTX 68 Road Runner






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