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Axle bearings #3066366
08/08/22 08:59 PM
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340cpe Offline OP
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What are the thoughts on 83/4 rear axle bearings? OEM or the new sealed(Green) bearings? I have a rear outer seal leaking wheel bearing grease and at this moment up in the air to replace the one side or go to the sealed bearing set-up and do both.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: 340cpe] #3066390
08/08/22 10:08 PM
08/08/22 10:08 PM
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Go Green, I'm sure you'll hear all the horror stories and arm chair engineering suppositions, but in my experience with most Green Bearing naysayer's is that any failures are usually a case of operator error/installation error, I've been running various generations/designs of Green Bearings in multiple vehicles for decades with ZERO failures, street/strip/road course......

Re: Axle bearings [Re: DAYCLONA] #3066438
08/09/22 06:51 AM
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Just remember,if you go green you have to remove the thrust block in the diff.


1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E. 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code 1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
Re: Axle bearings [Re: charge70] #3066440
08/09/22 07:11 AM
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Ive seen almost zero problems from oem bearings. I only have to replace them in rebuilding a rear end because of the said leaking grease seal. It’s usual the inner seal that lets 90 wt leak.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: fastmark] #3066688
08/09/22 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by fastmark
Ive seen almost zero problems from oem bearings. I only have to replace them in rebuilding a rear end because of the said leaking grease seal. It’s usual the inner seal that lets 90 wt leak.


So true. "Green" bearings was just a marketing ploy to replace tapered with standard (cheaper) roller bearings. Using the claim of no-more-axle-play adjustment, as if that is a really hard task to do.
Similar to the POR-15 products: Take an existing industrial coating, market it as "Paint" Over Rust for the automotive field. That sure was a "winner".

Re: Axle bearings [Re: PhillyRag] #3066695
08/09/22 10:22 PM
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Thank You I was leaning toward tapered and have now made up my mind.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: 340cpe] #3066739
08/10/22 08:09 AM
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I would stay with the OEM bearings. Mine been on for years. Outer rear axle seal; not a big deal to change. Just undo the flange nuts, pull the axle, pull out the old seal, put in the new seal.
Forgot to ask, is an early 8 3/4 rear with the tapered bearings?

Last edited by GMP440; 08/10/22 08:11 AM.
Re: Axle bearings [Re: PhillyRag] #3066798
08/10/22 12:44 PM
08/10/22 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by fastmark
Ive seen almost zero problems from oem bearings. I only have to replace them in rebuilding a rear end because of the said leaking grease seal. It’s usual the inner seal that lets 90 wt leak.


So true. "Green" bearings was just a marketing ploy to replace tapered with standard (cheaper) roller bearings. Using the claim of no-more-axle-play adjustment, as if that is a really hard task to do.


^^^^^^^^^^^
This. Many people are intimidated by a simple procedure.


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Re: Axle bearings [Re: 340cpe] #3066842
08/10/22 03:04 PM
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leaking? if the end play is too loose it wear out the seals
0.0030-0.0050 inches end play
green bearings are over rated and not recommended for road course laps no matter what the talented dayclona says. up
i have way more many hot laps than he does...lol

Re: Axle bearings [Re: 340cpe] #3066912
08/10/22 08:26 PM
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DrDiff article

Personally I feel the sideload argument is invalid because either bearing is stronger than the retainer plate. As DrDiff pointed out in the above link people that have had problems with Greens are probably using the early version that some suppliers still sell.

I guess if I was going to roadrace and the axle bearings were keeping me awake at night I would call Mark Williams and ask them instead of asking for opinions on a forum.

Last edited by GomangoCuda; 08/10/22 08:34 PM.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Axle bearings [Re: GomangoCuda] #3066971
08/11/22 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by GomangoCuda
DrDiff article

Personally I feel the sideload argument is invalid because either bearing is stronger than the retainer plate. As DrDiff pointed out in the above link people that have had problems with Greens are probably using the early version that some suppliers still sell.

I guess if I was going to roadrace and the axle bearings were keeping me awake at night I would call Mark Williams and ask them instead of asking for opinions on a forum.


It's not the overall strength of the bearing, but rather the use of the bearing. Tapered, by design, are for axial loads & radial loads. Non-tapered for radial only. Axial loads are present when turning.
Either will probably be fine with a car seeing road few miles, but that's not the designers' had in mind then.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: charge70] #3067210
08/11/22 11:20 PM
08/11/22 11:20 PM
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You only have to remove the thrust buttons if your diff has those - if you have a thrust block, it is retained on the cross pin and can't go anywhere. You'll just want to make sure you aren't bottomed out on it.

There was such bad tolerance stack in my E-body 8-3/4 that with the factory axles/bearings, the adjuster had pulled the right side axle to the point the brake drum was lightly touching the backing plate when you'd go around corners. I switched to the green style bearings so I'd have controlled end stick out distance on each side.

Overall, neither bearing design is perfect. Tapered bearings work best in pairs (reference front wheel bearing design) and handle side loads better; the tapered type bearing wants to naturally walk out of the race due to the angle. The mopar adjuster design works with the tapered bearings because of the ability to adjust end play, other makes don't have that ability. The "green" style roller bearings don't handle side loads well but don't require the setup effort. If you aren't autocrossing or road course racing the car, you aren't going to generate enough side load to trash the green/roller bearings. If you look at Moser, Strange, and even Mark Williams, they sell sealed ball bearings with their axles as standard. If that style bearing was a liability, you wouldn't see everyone using them. Just two different approaches...

Last edited by 83hurstguy; 08/11/22 11:23 PM.
Re: Axle bearings [Re: 83hurstguy] #3067390
08/12/22 04:07 PM
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∆∆∆∆. Exactly. The O.P. is not doing the type of racing that needs a tapered roller so either should work fine. However the adjustable tapered bearing as opposed to fixed location ball bearing could cause issues with disc brakes. That's could not will. Just throwing that out there.

Do racecars that heavily sideoad like Nascar, Indy or F1 use single tapered bearings like we are discusing or do they us opposed tapered bearings and floating axles? Just curious.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Axle bearings [Re: GomangoCuda] #3067584
08/13/22 11:18 AM
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F1 uses a ball bearing but not a single-row like the Green, they use dual preloaded ball bearings.

WB.PNG

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Re: Axle bearings [Re: John_Kunkel] #3067763
08/14/22 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
F1 uses a ball bearing but not a single-row like the Green, they use dual preloaded ball bearings.


Are those bearings spherical or cylindrical?

Re: Axle bearings [Re: GomangoCuda] #3068021
08/14/22 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GomangoCuda

Do racecars that heavily sideoad like Nascar, Indy or F1 use single tapered bearings like we are discusing or do they us opposed tapered bearings and floating axles? Just curious.


Last time I checked, Nascar was using 9" rears with super speedway floater ends - there were opposed pairs of tapered bearings in each hub.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: PhillyRag] #3068082
08/15/22 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
F1 uses a ball bearing but not a single-row like the Green, they use dual preloaded ball bearings.


Are those bearings spherical or cylindrical?


They would have to be spherical.

Last edited by JohnRR; 08/16/22 09:03 AM. Reason: used the wrong word ... yikes

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Re: Axle bearings [Re: JohnRR] #3068343
08/15/22 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
F1 uses a ball bearing but not a single-row like the Green, they use dual preloaded ball bearings.


Are those bearings spherical or cylindrical?


They would have to be cylindrical.


On 2nd look, you are correct. My Bad.

Re: Axle bearings [Re: PhillyRag] #3068396
08/16/22 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
F1 uses a ball bearing but not a single-row like the Green, they use dual preloaded ball bearings.


Are those bearings spherical or cylindrical?


They would have to be cylindrical.


On 2nd look, you are correct. My Bad.



My bad I copy and pasted the wrong word , they are spherical , the drawing make then look like a cylinder because that is how a 2d drawing makes a BALL look .


running up my post count some more .
Re: Axle bearings [Re: 340cpe] #3068733
08/17/22 06:26 AM
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Either. Likely stock type since I have a few new sets on the shelf.
The green bearing do move the axles inward slightly and if the carrier has the thrust block it often will pre-load the green bearings.
You can remove the thrust block, or grind a bit off the end of the axle(s), or add a shim between the brake backing plate and axle flange.

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