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Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: 71Demon528] #3066537
08/09/22 12:13 PM
08/09/22 12:13 PM
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Al_Alguire Offline
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Originally Posted by 71Demon528
I am certainly not familiar with the proflite but I have heard of guys going to T400 for many reasons. Guys I race with, including myself, have said if we ever had to switch from 727 it would be to a T400 mainly cause the availability of parts, first gear ratios, and SFI case.


There are 60 gear ration options available. Here is the list of what just ProTrans makes...

http://www.protransracing.com/images/PRO%20TRANS%20RATIO%20CHART.pdf


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: HardcoreB] #3066538
08/09/22 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
I wonder if a 727/Proflite can handle near 1300HP? How would it perform against a 2.10 first T400? What would the difference be in cost? Assuming you'd bellhousing the 727 for a larger converter?


HP is not the killer torque seems to be from what I have seen. Think TS type stuff with large engines with lots of strokes that are making 4 digit TQ numbers... They are in a LOT of comp cars making good HP from many sources. A1, Joels, Mcclay, ProTrans etc


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3066590
08/09/22 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Originally Posted by 71Demon528
I am certainly not familiar with the proflite but I have heard of guys going to T400 for many reasons. Guys I race with, including myself, have said if we ever had to switch from 727 it would be to a T400 mainly cause the availability of parts, first gear ratios, and SFI case.


There are 60 gear ration options available. Here is the list of what just ProTrans makes...

http://www.protransracing.com/images/PRO%20TRANS%20RATIO%20CHART.pdf


Thank you! I never knew there was this much available. Always good to learn something.

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: Al_Alguire] #3066617
08/09/22 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Originally Posted by HardcoreB
I wonder if a 727/Proflite can handle near 1300HP? How would it perform against a 2.10 first T400? What would the difference be in cost? Assuming you'd bellhousing the 727 for a larger converter?


HP is not the killer torque seems to be from what I have seen. Think TS type stuff with large engines with lots of strokes that are making 4 digit TQ numbers... They are in a LOT of comp cars making good HP from many sources. A1, Joels, Mcclay, ProTrans etc

Yep, torque, and shock loads. As a farm kid, i watched a big truck climbing a sialage pile, and snap an axle in the process. A truck trans in SUPER LOW has a top speed of about 5 mph? That is axle braking torque if you aren't carefull. And the motors wete less than 200 hp. But a ratio of something like 7/1 can wreak havoc if missused.

Last edited by gregsdart; 08/09/22 04:31 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: gregsdart] #3067069
08/11/22 12:14 PM
08/11/22 12:14 PM
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and now for the "stoopid old man question of the day".............
as the 727 case flexes, would a 1/4" [3/8", 1/2" ???] plate bolted to the pan rail with just enough clearance to bolt the valve body on and allow everything to spin and work as needed, acting as a girdle, do anything ? shruggy
my old mind is just thinking off on a tangent like always.
beer

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: moparx] #3067073
08/11/22 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
and now for the "stoopid old man question of the day".............
as the 727 case flexes, would a 1/4" [3/8", 1/2" ???] plate bolted to the pan rail with just enough clearance to bolt the valve body on and allow everything to spin and work as needed, acting as a girdle, do anything ? shruggy
my old mind is just thinking off on a tangent like always.
beer

I have heard of that being done but wayyy but in time...it seems like it may girdle things to me.

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: HardcoreB] #3067080
08/11/22 12:40 PM
08/11/22 12:40 PM
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"if" one were to try this, how thick would one have to be to be effective ?
just throwing this out there in a "mind experiment".
i would not expect this to work a miracle, but just wondering if this is a wasteful exercise, or something worth pursuing for a street/strip car.
beer

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: moparx] #3067082
08/11/22 12:54 PM
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If you were worried about it, bolt on one of the thick cast pans. To be honest in my opinion very few have enough power to hurt a decent 727. I know I don't.
Doug

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: dvw] #3067090
08/11/22 01:38 PM
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I’m thinking the flex would be at the band anchors more. With a girdle 1/2” thick or more, the gear selector would have to be extended. Can you imagine if JW made a 727 ultra case, most of those PG would go up for sale. Plenty of second gear sets for a 2 speed 727.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 08/11/22 01:38 PM.
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: cudaman1969] #3067123
08/11/22 04:49 PM
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I remember seeing someone make a pan girdle for C4 Ford transmissions. It was basically a deep oil pan with sides the width of the oil pan gasket. Not sure if it helped or not


Alan Jones
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: LA360] #3067189
08/11/22 08:45 PM
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Has anyone here ever seen signs of case Flex? I would think that a mid-plate would support the converter housing end. shruggy

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: racerx] #3067195
08/11/22 09:07 PM
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Suspend the engine with a front plate and trans mount and watch the flex in the engine-trans. Long time ago a friend had a 64 Dodge Hemi 4 speed setup like I said, would not shift at speed till a mid plate was added. This was with the cast steel factory blow proof bell and iron case 833. The 727 is thin on top

Last edited by cudaman1969; 08/11/22 09:09 PM.
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: dvw] #3067223
08/11/22 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dvw
If you were worried about it, bolt on one of the thick cast pans. To be honest in my opinion very few have enough power to hurt a decent 727. I know I don't.
Doug

I started putting the thick cast aluminum pans after Dave Smith at Pro Trans recommend that tranny pans on a long time ago up
I had been buying and using the cheaper stamp steel deep pan kit from Mopar but I decided to take his advice and switch.
In all truthfulness I didn't see a major change or benefit in that low 11.1 teen bracket car with no trans brake back then.shruggy confused
My old pump gas Duster had one on it and the tranny fluid never got above 170 F on the street beating on it or driving it nice work scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/25/22 03:28 PM.

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Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: tvt59] #3067276
08/12/22 08:32 AM
08/12/22 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tvt59
My 904 is doing pretty well at 6.08 and 112 in the 8th mile. 1.3 at 60'


Decided a couple years ago to play with the 904 we’ve had laying around some 20 years.

920D6DF7-2FB2-4F63-A7FF-545C89EC8A53.jpeg
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: SCDaytona] #3071293
08/25/22 07:47 AM
08/25/22 07:47 AM
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i'm at 1450 hp and over 1200 lb ft torque [ was on a engine dyno ] ive got my own built 727 behind it, ' only stock parts are case and the output shaft at the moment, no trans brake yet thats next along with a output shaft , so far no problems its in my 3980 lb street car ive been 8.80s at 165 mph i cant get it ti 60ft yet 1.45 60ft only problem is nobody will build a torque convertor for it !!!!!!!!! 0nly one convertor co out of 5 said they would ,only because they said the trans will break at that power level i just laughed and hung up ,

Last edited by 572charger; 08/25/22 07:58 AM.

606 hemi pump gas best 9.60 at 142mph on motor
05 hemi daytona 1500 go-mango 4wd quadcab
2007 hotrod mag pump gas drags runner up, roadkill nights dodge big tire winner 2018 2019 back to back
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: 572charger] #3071305
08/25/22 08:44 AM
08/25/22 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 572charger
i'm at 1450 hp and over 1200 lb ft torque [ was on a engine dyno ] ive got my own built 727 behind it, ' only stock parts are case and the output shaft at the moment, no trans brake yet thats next along with a output shaft , so far no problems its in my 3980 lb street car ive been 8.80s at 165 mph i cant get it ti 60ft yet 1.45 60ft only problem is nobody will build a torque convertor for it !!!!!!!!! 0nly one convertor co out of 5 said they would ,only because they said the trans will break at that power level i just laughed and hung up ,

Converter companies are all hung up on Chevy stuff, that’s all they know. Sounds funny but Mopars make different torque than other engines, I sent one back 4 times to get it tighter (I gave all the data first) first 9” blew thru 7000 on trans brake. But they worked with me until it was 5700 on the brake.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 08/25/22 08:45 AM.
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: 572charger] #3071310
08/25/22 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 572charger
i'm at 1450 hp and over 1200 lb ft torque [ was on a engine dyno ] ive got my own built 727 behind it, ' only stock parts are case and the output shaft at the moment, no trans brake yet thats next along with a output shaft , so far no problems its in my 3980 lb street car ive been 8.80s at 165 mph i cant get it ti 60ft yet 1.45 60ft only problem is nobody will build a torque convertor for it !!!!!!!!! 0nly one convertor co out of 5 said they would ,only because they said the trans will break at that power level i just laughed and hung up ,


Your car looked awesome...great job, and I am not sure everyone really knows you race it/drive it, and what a monster it is.

Saw your car on Road Kill Nites the other week, and it looks like its spinning out of the hole...Then again, that is not a race track, but I am sure you saw how some guys hooked with no problem there...When you do get it to hook, you will find the weakest link. We have trying out Hoosiers new DOT legal slick, and man those things work!

As for convertors, call ATI. That guy knows how to do them for the big engines like yours. I called all over, and they were the only ones that answered and said no problem....I am at half your HP and my street car 60fts a 1.33 on leaf springs & caltracks...My race car 60fts a 1.29 with a four link and sway bar....Might be time to revisit the suspension on yours.

See you around Jim...
Randy


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: Dragula] #3071335
08/25/22 10:13 AM
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I believe that GM converters are roughly .700" wider thru the cross section front to back. So the shape may be different. That may be why there isn't a huge data base for very high power Mopar trans converters.
Doug

Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: dvw] #3071340
08/25/22 10:39 AM
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I've always been told that there just isn't enough surface area inside a mopar style torque converter to get the holding power for high powered combos. The shape of the bellhousing dictates the converter be smaller than the GM stuff. All the more reason to go to a powerglide or turbo 400 setup.
Now, how much power is the limit? I don't know.

Having said that, there are guys making good power AND running good ETs w/ 727s. Brad Watt, Scott Cheek, and Larry Boyd all make REAL good power and still use a 727.
My converter (Atlantic Coast Converters) seems to work really good, but I'm not where those guys are. Mine is somewhere in the 1150 hp range.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed
'71 Demon 340
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado
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Re: Torqueflite strength? [Re: dvw] #3071445
08/25/22 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dvw
I believe that GM converters are roughly .700" wider thru the cross section front to back. So the shape may be different. That may be why there isn't a huge data base for very high power Mopar trans converters.
Doug


Would be one of the reasons that ProFlite transmissions run a GM converter. Pro Trans make a Powerglide splined input shaft and stator support, and adapter plate to make the bellhousing deeper.

Some purists want to stay with a A727, so much so, a friend asked me if I would make him a billet A727 case.


Alan Jones
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