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Business related question #3065339
08/04/22 09:50 PM
08/04/22 09:50 PM
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TJP Offline OP
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As most know i am winding thigs down a bit (LOT). I have a younger guy already running his own repair business but more towards the newer stuff, (90's & up). He bought some equipment from me and said he was interested in getting into the pre 1980 stuff. So, I've shoved a number of jobs his way and he has had many questions which i have answered and helped with.
I don't want to be a money grubbing SOB but at the same time at what point do I stop being shall we say FREE with everything, job and advice wise?
I originally suggested he dip his toes in and see if he wanted to pursue it or stay with what he was doing. He has said he really enjoys the older stuff and has another guy doing the later cars. He at one point asked if I'd consider doing Saturday's strictly on the older cars. I told him I've done enough weekends and I'm definitely not doing anymore for anyone other than myself if at all.
I've somewhat hinted around that maybe he should consider buying me out with a year or so of advice, consulting etc.
it's a bit of a puzzle as I plan on continuing smaller side stuff but at the same time feel some type of agreement needs to be made if I continue to help him. What would be fair to both ? Or I can just shut off the referrals and advice
Any suggestions/ ideas? confused shruggy beer

Re: Business related question [Re: TJP] #3065364
08/04/22 11:02 PM
08/04/22 11:02 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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If he values your help he should pay for it, regular shop rate if your good with that or discount if you like twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Business related question [Re: Cab_Burge] #3065365
08/04/22 11:19 PM
08/04/22 11:19 PM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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You should write a contract that he buys you out and you work the business for 6 months or a year with him at rate. If he is smart he will do that but make sure he understands that after the period you are done and there is no more questions... work


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

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A-Body's RULE!
Re: Business related question [Re: TJP] #3065368
08/04/22 11:29 PM
08/04/22 11:29 PM
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So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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CAB is rite...
@ some point U have to turn the questions into $$$..
In my case I retired after many years of doing product development/sourcing for some of the major consumer electronic brands, also I was certified to do AV installs and home automation systems. Today I still do some installs as often there are issues programming/configuring these CE products to work properly, for these I do charge a fee sometimes hourly or as a project. I also get questions about what products to purchase from friends, here I will make a recommendation free of charge but if more info/support is requested than I charge a fee. Since I am CEDIA certified I can buy my CE products through distributors @ prices 40-50% below what Amazon or Best Buy charges. Now I stay busy and get enough $$ to keep 91 octane in the RoadRunner...

Just my $0.02... wink

Re: Business related question [Re: Cab_Burge] #3065369
08/04/22 11:34 PM
08/04/22 11:34 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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I'd advise you be as tactful as possible, but start a discussion about Business Practice, referrals, and education.
Best probably to start with an allegory, like another line of work, say construction as an example.
He should understand apprenticeship and working his way into this business with the aid of your mentorship.
If you're supplying parts, wholesale pricing might be a win/win if you want to move stuff along.
If I was to learn to weld worth a damn, I'd gladly pay one of my buddies who's proficient for his time teaching me.
Perhaps that concept is lost on younger guys, in which case you'll have to lead him by example or discussion to grasp and follow that.

I have a somewhat similar situation, where a guy I know bought a car I advised against, but is knee-deep in resurrecting it.
I gave him almost $1,000 in parts, went over the car with him, and continue to answer questions and give advice.
He's not really a car guy but is well off due to hard work - has a commercial metal-fab business - and has at least offered to help out on a couple small tasks.
But that's geared toward him bringing the car to my place, which I don't have room for.
At some point, I should probably get a favor out of him, but in the meantime, it's not really a business situation, so I'm not bothered.
In your case, if you're advising him & sending him work, that's worth something.
Maybe discuss getting a cut, rather than an hourly wage, to avoid the complexity of accounting and any negative perceptions.
With my crews over the years, I learned that they have to want to do the right thing, which meant a leadership/mentor role for me if they weren't brought up that way.
Most of the time, the "light went on" and most of those guys became successful; a few have expressed their appreciation, and good friendships were formed and remain.

Re: Business related question [Re: topside] #3065382
08/05/22 12:40 AM
08/05/22 12:40 AM
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Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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“You know I used to get paid for this sort of thing…”

“You know I’m used to getting paid for that sort of thing, I can’t drop by to show/help you make money doing that for several weeks, unless it’s a job I’m getting paid for.”

Should cause some action with agitation along those lines.


I want my fair share
Re: Business related question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3065417
08/05/22 09:51 AM
08/05/22 09:51 AM
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rust belt
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Moparite Offline
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I think you should have a talk with him, It can be beneficial to both of you to come to some kind of agreement.

Re: Business related question [Re: Moparite] #3065453
08/05/22 12:11 PM
08/05/22 12:11 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline OP
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Thank you all very much for the replies and it anyone has any to add PLEASE DO.

Part of the problem is their is A LOT of knowledge I can pass on to him that took me years to learn. Most of it was paid for by experiences frown .
This is a different world than what he is accustomed to and he needs to know the ins and outs as well as how to cover his backside and not get in too deep. I have a list of turn downs in the last 6 months that would likely keep him busy for 3 years at his current pace. And these are on top of the ones I've referred to him and have on my schedule.

This knowledge part itself is probably the hardest part to figure out how to establish a WIW and then the rest as well. Even if he offered to buy me out completely it would be difficult as I plan to continue on a part time basis with established regulars and as a hobby. So that poses another set of problems. What would I keep and what to let go of. We all know as soon as something is sold, one suddenly needs it LOL. We won't even talk about the inventory as that's another can of worms.
thanks to all that have responded so far andf hope to see some more wink beer

Re: Business related question [Re: TJP] #3065465
08/05/22 12:38 PM
08/05/22 12:38 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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Well, that's another way to a win/win: put a price on the business that would include some coaching, and sell it to him.
Let him know that you're pulling back, but will do some work from time to time as mood/money might dictate.
Keep only what you want to do the projects you like; you can rent or buy stuff later if need be.
The just-in-case stuff can be hard to let go, but I've been doing that lately and it's kind of liberating.
Maybe if your protege gets the stuff, you could rent/borrow it back if need be, so in that way it's mutually beneficial, but he stores the stuff.

Sometimes what I do on these matters is to step outside my head and look at the situation from outside, so to speak.
More than once, it's helped with clarity, or a better idea, or overcoming the "need" to hold on to things, mostly because that became comfortable and I hadn't noticed I was close to drowning under them.

Re: Business related question [Re: TJP] #3065473
08/05/22 12:58 PM
08/05/22 12:58 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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A friend of mine was the junior partner in Gil Marine years ago, he was the shop manager (around 15 employees) and the head of their research and development department (he was an EXCELLENT welder and fabricator.) bow
The founder and owner decided to retire and sell the business, my friend was hired by the new owners to be the shop manager and as a consultant for the R&D product development manager for both companies.
His contract had a buyout clause after five years and he decided to buy it out to get back out on his own.
My message is discussing your future and pay with the new guy and help both of you during the transition up twocents scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/05/22 01:02 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Business related question [Re: Cab_Burge] #3065583
08/05/22 07:45 PM
08/05/22 07:45 PM
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You may want to institute a referral fee, based on a % of the job payout, and an information fee based on the job payout, but with a time limit of so many hours, also based on the job payout. I would believe that % should be pretty low, say 10% to 20% max, each. Keep in mind that you are not actually doing the work, he is.

For instance the job at hand is a $2,000 job. your referral fee would be 10% of the $2,000 or $200. Then if he needed advice on that job, the information fee would also be 10% of that $2,000 job, or $200, but you time limit for the information would be limited to 2-3 hours. So if you both referred the job to him, and provided information concerning that $2,000 job, he would pay to $400 with a time limit of 2-3 hours on the information consolation.

You get something for sending him work, and you get something for the time you share your experience, and he knows what your referrals and experience will cost him and then he can determine how much, or how little of your help he desires from you, and when he might want that help. The time may come that he won't accept jobs you send him, and/or he won't be asking for your experience as much. If and when that time comes, respect his wishes.

Selling specialty tools and materials should be based accordingly. Get back what you paid and maybe a small profit, but well under what it would cost to buy the same stuff on the current market.

Re: Business related question [Re: poorboy] #3065609
08/05/22 08:44 PM
08/05/22 08:44 PM
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Id consider any business you push his way a favor to your current customers. Seeing if he would buy you out of whatever you don't want or your business might be the best way to deal with it and then continue on for a bit like someone else mentioned.

It's a tough situation for sure. It's great to pass on the knowledge but at what point do you stop when it becomes an inconvenience to you. Maybe talking to him and letting him know you'll help out for a certain price is the best way to handle it?

Re: Business related question [Re: 5thAve] #3065776
08/06/22 02:01 PM
08/06/22 02:01 PM
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Some good suggestions and advice thanks to all. I'll ponder it a bit more and as suggested likely have to sit down and talk about it. Might be a worthwhile to write him a quick note,
Suggesting he turn the tables, think about it a bit and then we'll talk.
Part of the problem is some of the advice was a learned thing and once divulged the value of it goes away. Definitely a puzzle wink beer

Re: Business related question [Re: TJP] #3065790
08/06/22 02:40 PM
08/06/22 02:40 PM
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Good luck on your decisions results wrench
Please keep us in the loop work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Business related question [Re: Cab_Burge] #3065920
08/06/22 09:51 PM
08/06/22 09:51 PM
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TJP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Good luck on your decisions results wrench
Please keep us in the loop work


Will do. he stopped b a few days ago and bought 6 car covers for 10.00 a piece. I earlier today received a Facebook message saying he forgot to ask for a receipt, I'm not sure if he was serious or not? So I responded saying the receipt price was 15.00 ea. LOL
He may have just boned himself if he was serious spank. Everything he has bought has been with ?? uhh pesos and confederate money that is supposed to revalue when the south rises again. whistling
But that would definitely open the door for discussion on further referrals and advice shake_head argue wink







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