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Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: Transman] #3062612
07/26/22 07:41 AM
07/26/22 07:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,134
VA
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dragon slayer Offline
super stock
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VA
So you should see 5/32" depth when balance on fully. Not 3/8 or 12/32" that you see now. So if the balance goes on an additional 7/32 does that line up the pulley? If not you might have to use a different pulley, either crank or water pump. Of course that may change every thing like alternator and power steering.
That is a wide damper with marginal inset. So it will push crank pulley farther out towards radiator.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: rickraw] #3062623
07/26/22 08:53 AM
07/26/22 08:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,621
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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Posts: 9,621
North Dakota
Originally Posted by rickraw
First off, never beat a damper on. You could have damaged the thrust bearing, who knows you may have. That damper looks like it’s made wrong. Get an American made damper. Do some research for your application.


This would really be concerning me too.


"Only the best and brightest"
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PakBee] #3064361
08/01/22 02:05 PM
08/01/22 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
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MI
Here's an update on my balancer problem. I got a balancer installation tool from Autozone. I heated the balancer back up again in the oven, oiled the crank snout, seal and balancer inner bore and slid the balancer on the crank. Attached the tool and pushed the balancer on as far as it would go. It went on 3/32" further than the first time. There is still about 9/32" of the balancer bore showing and based on my calculations it should be 5/32" if the balancer was seated all the way on the crank. So it would seem the balancer should still go on another 1/8". The pulleys are still no where close to lining up and even if the balancer was on the additional 1/8" the pulleys still wouldn't line up. They are a matched pair taken off of a 440 and the water pump and housing are MP aluminum parts. The forged crankshaft is from 440 Source. I also wanted to mention I have a stock 440 balancer that I compared to the Summit piece. The bore is the same length and when you stand them both on their snouts on a table everything is the same except the body of the Summit balancer is wider but it does not affect the crank pulley at all. The face of the balancer where the pulley mounts is the same height off the table on both. I've about had it trying to resolve this. I'm thinking of selling the motor as-is and just buying a running 340 to put in the car. flame

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064379
08/01/22 02:59 PM
08/01/22 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,063
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Why not use the stock 440 balancer that you already have?

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064380
08/01/22 03:00 PM
08/01/22 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,767
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
I'd measure the snout of that 440 source crank versus a stock crank. twocents


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed
'71 Demon 340
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3064406
08/01/22 04:33 PM
08/01/22 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,484
westerly, ri. usa
4
440lebaron Offline
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westerly, ri. usa
I had to draw in the last 1/8 with the bolt and impact gun, you will know when its seated with impact gun


Last edited by 440lebaron; 08/01/22 04:34 PM.
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: AndyF] #3064434
08/01/22 05:43 PM
08/01/22 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
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MI
Originally Posted by AndyF
Why not use the stock 440 balancer that you already have?


This engine build goes back 5 years (which happens to be when I bought the balancer). I have no engine building experience so a distant family member (through in-laws) offered to build it for me. He got as far as getting the rotating assembly and camshaft installed and then he suddenly passed away. The engine has been on the engine stand in my garage ever since so I am now trying to finish it up myself. I got the heads, rocker arm assemblies, distributor and water pump installed. All I have left at this point is installing the balancer, pullies and intake and I can then put the engine in the car. To answer your question about the 440 balancer, the guy who was building the motor suggested I get a new balancer since everything else was new (with the exception of the block) which is why I didn't use the 440 one.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 440lebaron] #3064437
08/01/22 05:45 PM
08/01/22 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
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MI
Originally Posted by 440lebaron
I had to draw in the last 1/8 with the bolt and impact gun, you will know when its seated with impact gun



I was told not to do this as it could damage the threads so I assumed it wasn't safe.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064455
08/01/22 07:05 PM
08/01/22 07:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
remove the bolt and coat it with a good anticize and reinstalled it so you can seat the balancer all the way: wrench: :two cents wrench hammer up:
The stock hole size and thread count is 3/4 inch, .750, with 16 threads per inch, if you can break it you have done something I've never heard of anyone doing that with oil or Anti seize or even dry threads of that size and countwork scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/01/22 08:11 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: Cab_Burge] #3064503
08/01/22 09:30 PM
08/01/22 09:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,153
upstate western ny
sogtx Offline
master
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upstate western ny
I honed mine ever so slightly by a machinist

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: sogtx] #3064518
08/01/22 10:28 PM
08/01/22 10:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,348
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Originally Posted by sogtx
I honed mine ever so slightly by a machinist

iagree

I honed a few dampers before with zero issues twocents It doesn't have to be THAT tight of a grip on the crank.

Gus beer

Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 08/01/22 10:29 PM.

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: fourgearsavoy] #3064520
08/01/22 10:38 PM
08/01/22 10:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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If it doesn't have a tightness to the crankshaft snout it won't absorb the vibrations it needs to do it jobs, way better to be tight than loose twocents(just like your G.F. whistling grin)


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064539
08/02/22 12:45 AM
08/02/22 12:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,063
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by 6PAX
Originally Posted by AndyF
Why not use the stock 440 balancer that you already have?


This engine build goes back 5 years (which happens to be when I bought the balancer). I have no engine building experience so a distant family member (through in-laws) offered to build it for me. He got as far as getting the rotating assembly and camshaft installed and then he suddenly passed away. The engine has been on the engine stand in my garage ever since so I am now trying to finish it up myself. I got the heads, rocker arm assemblies, distributor and water pump installed. All I have left at this point is installing the balancer, pullies and intake and I can then put the engine in the car. To answer your question about the 440 balancer, the guy who was building the motor suggested I get a new balancer since everything else was new (with the exception of the block) which is why I didn't use the 440 one.


See if the 440 balancer will fit and work. Try it to see if the pulley alignment is correct. If it works then no reason you can't use it. Nothing else, it will show you what a proper fit looks and feels like.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064592
08/02/22 10:24 AM
08/02/22 10:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 73,994
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by 6PAX
Here's an update on my balancer problem. I got a balancer installation tool from Autozone. I heated the balancer back up again in the oven, oiled the crank snout, seal and balancer inner bore and slid the balancer on the crank. Attached the tool and pushed the balancer on as far as it would go. It went on 3/32" further than the first time. There is still about 9/32" of the balancer bore showing and based on my calculations it should be 5/32" if the balancer was seated all the way on the crank. So it would seem the balancer should still go on another 1/8". The pulleys are still no where close to lining up and even if the balancer was on the additional 1/8" the pulleys still wouldn't line up. They are a matched pair taken off of a 440 and the water pump and housing are MP aluminum parts. The forged crankshaft is from 440 Source. I also wanted to mention I have a stock 440 balancer that I compared to the Summit piece. The bore is the same length and when you stand them both on their snouts on a table everything is the same except the body of the Summit balancer is wider but it does not affect the crank pulley at all. The face of the balancer where the pulley mounts is the same height off the table on both. I've about had it trying to resolve this. I'm thinking of selling the motor as-is and just buying a running 340 to put in the car. flame


The balancer needs to be honed a bit because it's undersized , I've never had to heat a balancer to get it on.


running up my post count some more .
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: JohnRR] #3064677
08/02/22 03:01 PM
08/02/22 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,480
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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Posts: 16,480
north of coder
if it were mine, i would remove the balancer and look close at the crank snout to see if any galling occurred.
then look at the balancer bore for the same.
lastly, i would look at the key way to see if something was going on there.
beer

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: moparx] #3064680
08/02/22 03:15 PM
08/02/22 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,506
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
I can’t imagine that no one has mentioned that the balancer is assembled backwards. look at the picture on the box that you posted in your first reply. the bolts are toward the back side on the box. the fact that the timing numbers are backwards should be a pretty strong clue…


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: TRENDZ] #3064940
08/03/22 02:33 PM
08/03/22 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,480
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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north of coder
i had to look at the pictures again, but it sure seems you are on to something ! up
thanks for pointing that out !
can this balancer be taken apart and assembled the correct way by the basic person, or does it need to be sent back to the manufacturer to have it corrected ?
if i had it in my hands, i would try to take it apart and assemble it correctly. however, i have way more shop equipment than the average person, and i'm not afraid to ruin anything. biggrin
that's how one learns things. i have learned more things NOT to do than i have learned correct methods of doing things. laugh2
beer

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: moparx] #3064954
08/03/22 03:13 PM
08/03/22 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
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MI
The picture on the box is not what it looks like. Look at the pic I posted of it on my engine. Also here. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-c4279

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3064992
08/03/22 05:24 PM
08/03/22 05:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,235
Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
top fuel
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Ambridge, Pa.
If it was me, I’d scrap it. Too many issues. First you beat it on, you may have damaged the thrust earring, second, misaligned pulley’s, third, numbers on the wrong side, Hope you straighten things out.

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