Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Plug recommendation E85 #3063152
07/27/22 10:54 PM
07/27/22 10:54 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Looking for a plug recommendation to establish a baseline on a brand new build..
505ci RB , 11-1 CR
Home ported (by me)Promaxx- (same as Sidewinders) 210 cc heads
Bullet "street"Solid Roller 254/260 @.050 109 lsa
Trick Flow single plane
ATM Innovations 950 cfm E85 carb
4.10 gear S60 , RMVB 727 3500 vert ,28"tire
Car is 3,600 with me in it
95% street driven
I will be running a wideband.

Big question on the plugs.. projected tip ? Non projected ? ... and heat range recommendation. Im a total e85 newb
And this is my first stroker build too. Just wanna start off in the right ballpark plug wise if possible. Thanks for any info.



Last edited by Torquemonster440; 07/28/22 07:45 AM.

1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Torquemonster440] #3063218
07/28/22 09:54 AM
07/28/22 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 983
rust belt
M
Moparite Offline
super stock
Moparite  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 983
rust belt
You plan on running straight E85? Engine Masters did a episode eon alternative fuels and said E85 is hard to come by. I did a search and only 3 places in my state carry it.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=E85

Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Moparite] #3063222
07/28/22 10:13 AM
07/28/22 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
Johnstown
69dart Offline
pro stock
69dart  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
Johnstown
I've ran the Autolite AR3993 and NGK R5671A-9 with success.

I prefer the NGK nowadays as Autolite QC isnt what it once was. I chased an random miss for a couple of races in 2021 - turned out to be a bad new plug.


33 Plymouth Roadster - 383 - 5.90 1/8th 9.58 1/4
68 Dart - 340
66 Belvedere - 400

Windy Hollow Garage - https://www.youtube.com/@windyhollowgarage
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Moparite] #3063223
07/28/22 10:16 AM
07/28/22 10:16 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by Moparite
You plan on running straight E85? Engine Masters did a episode eon alternative fuels and said E85 is hard to come by. I did a search and only 3 places in my state carry it.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=E85


Yes, fortunately all of the Chevron stations in my area carry E85. And it's roughly $2.00-$2.50 cheaper/gallon vs CA 91.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: 69dart] #3063265
07/28/22 11:58 AM
07/28/22 11:58 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by 69dart
I've ran the Autolite AR3993 and NGK R5671A-9 with success.

I prefer the NGK nowadays as Autolite QC isnt what it once was. I chased an random miss for a couple of races in 2021 - turned out to be a bad new plug.


Ok, thanks. I initally bought AR3933's.. but after more research it appears that perhaps that plug may be too cold for a 95% street application like mine. The AR3933's worked well for you on the street?


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Torquemonster440] #3063280
07/28/22 12:48 PM
07/28/22 12:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
My 518 C.I. low deck stroker motor with 15.0 to 1 compression liked Autolite #3934, it did NOT like any colder plugs whiney You can try those colder plugs but don't surprised if the 3934 or 3935 will work better twocents
Those Autolite racing plugs have a retracted gap and seem to last forever with our local pump E85 up scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/28/22 12:49 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Torquemonster440] #3063282
07/28/22 12:53 PM
07/28/22 12:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
MI
J
Jeff440sc Offline
member
Jeff440sc  Offline
member
J

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
MI
NGK R5671A-7 or a -8 ..... this is a 3/4 reach flat gasket pug.... 7 is hotter than 8 ...9 would be to cold for you... depending on your cam 7 may be a little hot... I run a 8 heat range with 15lbs of boost so I would start with a 7 and read the strap with full timing in.
I use to buy e-85 at the pump but found issues with gas stations, E85 can absorb water because of open vents and depending on how fast they replenish the tank, the water will not separate until it reaches a threshold . Next problem is e-85 pump fuels then to be mixed with the cheapest gas they can find . They call that gas "drippings" and its not good gas... the 15 percent cheap drippings was the probable cause of the black gummy residue in the intake manifold which I had experienced. I was told by a manufacture they also use a friction reducer for the gas portion made for transporting the gas in pipe lines which may have contributed to the black gumming, or it was possibly related to the two fuels separating out from one another during the liquid to gas phase in the intake manifold
.
For these reasons I will only buy a pail or a drum of E85 from Ethanol one to avoid the black gum and water in the fuel.... You have to use a hydrometer to check specific gravity to know if there is water in the alcohol. You have to know what specific gravity spec from the manufacture in order to test for water content.
Always keep your tank or fuel seal sealed until ready to race or drive or in a few days with an open vent you will have some water in the fuel because it does suck water from the atmosphere.
I learned these things the hard way and hope it helps someone.
Best
Jeff

Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Cab_Burge] #3063306
07/28/22 02:08 PM
07/28/22 02:08 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
My 518 C.I. low deck stroker motor with 15.0 to 1 compression liked Autolite #3934, it did NOT like any colder plugs whiney You can try those colder plugs but don't surprised if the 3934 or 3935 will work better twocents
Those Autolite racing plugs have a retracted gap and seem to last forever with our local pump E85 up scope


Thanks Cab, looks like those 3933's are definitely too cold then.. kinda like I suspected. Always appreciate your info.


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Jeff440sc] #3063311
07/28/22 02:18 PM
07/28/22 02:18 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by Jeff440sc
NGK R5671A-7 or a -8 ..... this is a 3/4 reach flat gasket pug.... 7 is hotter than 8 ...9 would be to cold for you... depending on your cam 7 may be a little hot... I run a 8 heat range with 15lbs of boost so I would start with a 7 and read the strap with full timing in.
I use to buy e-85 at the pump but found issues with gas stations, E85 can absorb water because of open vents and depending on how fast they replenish the tank, the water will not separate until it reaches a threshold . Next problem is e-85 pump fuels then to be mixed with the cheapest gas they can find . They call that gas "drippings" and its not good gas... the 15 percent cheap drippings was the probable cause of the black gummy residue in the intake manifold which I had experienced. I was told by a manufacture they also use a friction reducer for the gas portion made for transporting the gas in pipe lines which may have contributed to the black gumming, or it was possibly related to the two fuels separating out from one another during the liquid to gas phase in the intake manifold
.
For these reasons I will only buy a pail or a drum of E85 from Ethanol one to avoid the black gum and water in the fuel.... You have to use a hydrometer to check specific gravity to know if there is water in the alcohol. You have to know what specific gravity spec from the manufacture in order to test for water content.
Always keep your tank or fuel seal sealed until ready to race or drive or in a few days with an open vent you will have some water in the fuel because it does suck water from the atmosphere.
I learned these things the hard way and hope it helps someone.
Best
Jeff

Thanks for that heads up, much appreciated. What state are you located in ? Out here in So.Cal the fuel regulations are very strict, which hopefully translates to a more consistent E85 blend ? We shall see.. My neighbor has been running a 13.5-1 408 small block stroker for 2 years on pump E85, when I asked him about his experience he said "Great". ." Just keep the tank full and don't let it sit for longer than a week without driving it". Do you run any type of fuel conditioner ? I've been told the Lucas stuff works well. Thanks for the plug info too.







1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Torquemonster440] #3063547
07/29/22 11:05 AM
07/29/22 11:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
MI
J
Jeff440sc Offline
member
Jeff440sc  Offline
member
J

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
MI
Thanks for that heads up, much appreciated. What state are you located in ? Out here in So.Cal the fuel regulations are very strict, which hopefully translates to a more consistent E85 blend ? We shall see.. My neighbor has been running a 13.5-1 408 small block stroker for 2 years on pump E85, when I asked him about his experience he said "Great". ." Just keep the tank full and don't let it sit for longer than a week without driving it". Do you run any type of fuel conditioner ? I've been told the Lucas stuff works well. Thanks for the plug info too.

I am in Michigan, I have talked to Corrigan Oil Company and Michigan fuels to find the fresh E-85. Have to know if the fuel is being replenished on a weekly basis and when they switch to the winter blend.... Meijer grocery gas stations had the worse case of water content I seen...it was even milky looking coming out of the pump....didnt need to use the hydrometer when it was that bad.
For the most part just having it sit in a granulated cylinder for a few days caused the the specific gravity to change( meaning water absorption). So I would not take a chance until you test the gravity and gas ratio for yourself ... I would not trust that there is no water in it by looks ....its still looks clear when there is water in it.
If you buy it from a race manufacturer they have charts for gravity vs temp so you can confirm its made to spec.

as far as additives, I tried Starton e-85 stabilizer and I would say its risky because it its an oil it could cause detonation, I did experience some piston damage when I used Starton , but other factors may have also contributed.
So I would advise not to add anything but just make sure what your using is to spec. Test and trust nobody these days...

Best,
Jeff

Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Jeff440sc] #3063582
07/29/22 12:09 PM
07/29/22 12:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
i have not had any of the local E85 tested with a good hydrometer for the specific gravity, I do test it for alcohol content and see an increase of alcohol when let it sit in the plastic jugs in the car trailer over the winter.
It will go up as high as 88% after sitting long enough shruggy
My 15.0 to 1 compression S/P bracket race motor didn't seem to notice the difference between fresh E85 out of the local pump or after sitting in the jugs all winter gaining more alcohol content: confused
I do have a decent hydrometer that I use to use when I race in NHRA stock classes back when they would check the specific gravity on our race gas, maybe I should use it now on the E85 to see if it changes or not after sitting in the jugs a long time: work:


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Cab_Burge] #3063710
07/29/22 07:19 PM
07/29/22 07:19 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
i have not had any of the local E85 tested with a good hydrometer for the specific gravity, I do test it for alcohol content and see an increase of alcohol when let it sit in the plastic jugs in the car trailer over the winter.
It will go up as high as 88% after sitting long enough shruggy
My 15.0 to 1 compression S/P bracket race motor didn't seem to notice the difference between fresh E85 out of the local pump or after sitting in the jugs all winter gaining more alcohol content: confused
I do have a decent hydrometer that I use to use when I race in NHRA stock classes back when they would check the specific gravity on our race gas, maybe I should use it now on the E85 to see if it changes or not after sitting in the jugs a long time: work:


Wow, I'm shocked it's still stable after sitting all winter. Do you add a stabilizer ?


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Torquemonster440] #3063724
07/29/22 08:24 PM
07/29/22 08:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
I didn't for several years until I saw some of the Lucas E 85 stabilizer for sale and started using it.: up:
I didn't really see a loss of power using the old stuff compared to the new fuel bought locally other than seeing it go from 85% in the fall to between 87 and 89% in the spring when I recheck it work
I have 5 five gallon plastic jugs and usually had one or two that had fuel in them at the end of the year so I would fill the empty jugs in the spring and mix some of the old fuel with the new fuel to get them closer together on the Ethanol content wrench
I also tried adding E98 to the pump fuel to make it E90 but the new E98 wouldn't stay mixed with the pump fuel in the jug I mix it with so I fatten up all four jets by two sizes and didn't see any gain or loss or a difference on the time slip in the 1/8 mile and on the spark plugs with that mix shruggy
I figure the E98 would stay mix in the fuel cell due to the fuel pump recycling it whenever I had the BG400 pump running work luck shruggy
I need to figure out which chemical will help keep the E98 mixed with the pump fuel so I can step up the power next year with a power adder and not have to worry about the fuel quality and detonation: work: stirthepot: devil:

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/29/22 08:27 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Plug recommendation E85 [Re: Cab_Burge] #3063969
07/30/22 10:14 PM
07/30/22 10:14 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
T
Torquemonster440 Offline OP
member
Torquemonster440  Offline OP
member
T

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
[quote=Cab_Burge]I didn't for several years until I saw some of the Lucas E 85 stabilizer for sale and started using it.: up:
I didn't really see a loss of power using the old stuff compared to the new fuel bought locally other than seeing it go from 85% in the fall to between 87 and 89% in the spring when I recheck it work
I have 5 five gallon plastic jugs and usually had one or two that had fuel in them at the end of the year so I would fill the empty jugs in the spring and mix some of the old fuel with the new fuel to get them closer together on the Ethanol content wrench
I also tried adding E98 to the pump fuel to make it E90 but the new E98 wouldn't stay mixed with the pump fuel in the jug I mix it with so I fatten up all four jets by two sizes and didn't see any gain or loss or a difference on the time slip in the 1/8 mile and on the spark plugs with that mix shruggy
I figure the E98 would stay mix in the fuel cell due to the fuel pump recycling it whenever I had the BG400 pump running work luck shruggy
I need to figure out which chemical will help keep the E98 mixed with the pump fuel so I can step up the power next year with a power adder and not have to worry about the fuel quality and detonation: work: stirthepot: devil: [/quote

Quite the Mad Scientist.. laugh.. thanks for all the info and feedback. up Dropped the 505 in today. Hope to have it running soon. luck


1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1