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Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: terzmo] #3062515
07/25/22 04:39 PM
07/25/22 04:39 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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Originally Posted by terzmo
seen and heard of many engines crapping out on break in without proper oil in Flat tappet cam configurations. Bradd Penn has breakin oil. Also oil after for flat tappet. Valvoline ZR1 is also good after break in. I use Bradd Penn and had no issues with for years. I don't use an additive as I feel it "may" not mix /react well with chosen oil.


ZR1 is a Corvette. VR1 is a Valvoline oil.

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: cudaman1969] #3062589
07/25/22 09:31 PM
07/25/22 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Back in the day (50 years) iirr engines came with non-detergent oil, after 500 miles it was changed to detergent, 30 or 40 weight. Nothing like out there today.

bu the question is did that none detergent oil have ZDDP in it? My guess is yes as flat tappet camshaft failure was one of the reasons it was added to the oil somewhere in the 30's according to current information. Previously read info claimed 1920 or so.
Also 50 years ago was 1972 eek and I believe the era you were referring to is the 1940- to early 50's beer

Dodge shop 1970, so 52 years. Other than brand Oil selection was next to nothing then.


Uhh you might want to read section 1 of a few FSM's form "back in the day" wink beer

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: TJP] #3062595
07/25/22 11:04 PM
07/25/22 11:04 PM
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Short answer to the OP's question: I would, and it won't hurt anything if somehow it's overkill.
I like to stack the cards in my favor, so to speak, and so far that's paid off.

I started drag racing in the '60s, and paying attention to oil, and there were indeed different weights & of course brands; non-detergent was available but not popular, and was pretty much an oddity.
ZDDP & phosphorous were reduced from previous levels in the mid-90s. So yes, there was more of both previously.
IIRC, that was an emissions deal, maybe for catalytic converter efficiency ? Sulphur in diesel fuel was also reduced for the cats.
The newer vehicles were switching to roller lifters, or had already, so the levels for FT stuff were de-prioritized.

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: TJP] #3062636
07/26/22 09:05 AM
07/26/22 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Back in the day (50 years) iirr engines came with non-detergent oil, after 500 miles it was changed to detergent, 30 or 40 weight. Nothing like out there today.

bu the question is did that none detergent oil have ZDDP in it? My guess is yes as flat tappet camshaft failure was one of the reasons it was added to the oil somewhere in the 30's according to current information. Previously read info claimed 1920 or so.
Also 50 years ago was 1972 eek and I believe the era you were referring to is the 1940- to early 50's beer

Dodge shop 1970, so 52 years. Other than brand Oil selection was next to nothing then.


Uhh you might want to read section 1 of a few FSM's form "back in the day" wink beer

Really.

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: cudaman1969] #3062752
07/26/22 12:40 PM
07/26/22 12:40 PM
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will changing brand of oil in a running engine [after a cam change only] do damage ?
engine in question has been running amsoil, and the change is to valvoline.
beer

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: volaredon] #3062770
07/26/22 02:08 PM
07/26/22 02:08 PM
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Video boroscopes and laboratory oil analysis are now relatively cheap,
but rebuild labor is more expensive.

For flat tappet applications maybe turn attention to how to inspect with a small diameter head video boroscope with minimum teardown, like maybe a tapped inspection hole that can be closed with a plug.

Lab oil analysis on new oil, then at 500 miles?

For large expensive tapered roller bearings “break in” for industrial applications
Torrington used to advise using a heavier, higher viscosity oil
pre-warmed to 30 degrees above expected operating temperature prior to initial start,
then changed at 48 hours.

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: cudaman1969] #3062864
07/26/22 08:55 PM
07/26/22 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Back in the day (50 years) iirr engines came with non-detergent oil, after 500 miles it was changed to detergent, 30 or 40 weight. Nothing like out there today.


Dodge shop 1970, so 52 years. Other than brand Oil selection was next to nothing then.


Uhh you might want to read section 1 of a few FSM's form "back in the day" wink beer

Really. [/quote]
REALLY !!
From a 1970 FSM section 1 pages 15 and 16 blush

Scan1.jpgScan2.jpg
Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: TJP] #3062915
07/27/22 07:07 AM
07/27/22 07:07 AM
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Summit sells Lucas brand break in oil. $27 for a 5 qt jug. Cheap insurance.
Doug

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: 375inStroke] #3062951
07/27/22 08:55 AM
07/27/22 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 375inStroke
Generally, break in oil is very low on detergents, which counteract the chemical bonding of the ZDDP and other anti-wear additives. You also have to consider you need the piston rings and cylinder walls to mate to each other. I have no idea how mixing chemicals together in your crankcase are going to affect your cam and your rings. I'd stick with specific break in oil. My Lunati cam came with Joe Gibbs Racing Driven cam lube, so I just got some of their break in oil from Summit, along with their Hot Rod oil which is designed for old cars with flat tappet cams that may sit a long time, like through the winter, without running.


^^this. One of the biggest differences between break in/racing oil vs street oil is that the street oil has detergents in it.

Re: Break in oil really necessary? [Re: moparx] #3062952
07/27/22 08:57 AM
07/27/22 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by moparx
will changing brand of oil in a running engine [after a cam change only] do damage ?
engine in question has been running amsoil, and the change is to valvoline.
beer


I run the engine for break in, how you break it in is a whole different subject, then change oil. More often than not to a different brand/type and no extra additives outside of anti-wear additives for a normal engine, usually none. i.e. break in with 30w conventional or break in oil and switch to 10w-40 synthetic at 500 miles.

Never had a problem.

Over the long haul I find it more important to change frequently and use a good brand. Clean oil is more important than the brand but the brand does have a definite effect over the long term. IMHO


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