Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Need help with harmonic balancer #3062087
07/24/22 01:30 PM
07/24/22 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
I installed my harmonic balancer I got from Summit and am having a few problems. First, I thought I had it installed properly so I put on the crank pulley. When I went to install the water pump pulley today it wasn't even close to lining up with the crank pulley. So now I'm thinking maybe the balancer isn't on far enough. To install it, I heated it up per the instructions, slid it on as far as it would go and drove it the rest of the way (or at least what I thought was the rest of the way) with a 4x4 and hammer until it didn't go on any further. I then tightened the bolt with my torque wrench to 90 psi per the specs and thought all was good. However, it is not. Secondly, the timing marks on the balancer read the opposite direction from the marks on the timing tab on the motor as shown in the pictures. Why would this be? The motor is a 72 400 with the stock timing cover/timing tab.

DSC00006.JPGDSC00004.JPGDSC00005.JPGDSC00007.JPG
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062088
07/24/22 01:31 PM
07/24/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
more.

DSC00008.JPGDSC00002.JPG
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062089
07/24/22 01:38 PM
07/24/22 01:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,235
Ambridge, Pa.
R
rickraw Offline
top fuel
rickraw  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,235
Ambridge, Pa.
First off, never beat a damper on. You could have damaged the thrust bearing, who knows you may have. That damper looks like it’s made wrong. Get an American made damper. Do some research for your application.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: rickraw] #3062093
07/24/22 01:50 PM
07/24/22 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
"Do some research for your application"

I did when I bought it.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062097
07/24/22 02:10 PM
07/24/22 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,269
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,269
Rio Linda, CA
With the bolt removed, how much of the crank snout is visible in the balancer's bore? IOW, how deep in the bore is the end of the crank snout?


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062142
07/24/22 03:43 PM
07/24/22 03:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
That looks like a street hemi dampener, not for a wedge motor twocents scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: John_Kunkel] #3062146
07/24/22 04:12 PM
07/24/22 04:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
With the bolt removed, how much of the crank snout is visible in the balancer's bore? IOW, how deep in the bore is the end of the crank snout?


3/8"

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: Cab_Burge] #3062147
07/24/22 04:12 PM
07/24/22 04:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
That looks like a street hemi dampener, not for a wedge motor twocents scope


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-c4279

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062154
07/24/22 04:51 PM
07/24/22 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,063
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,063
Oregon
I don't know why the pulley doesn't line up. It could be that the damper is made wrong or it could be that the damper isn't fitted properly for your engine. Aftermarket dampers often need to be honed to fit. Mopar dampers require a special press fit to work properly. You need to measure the OD of the crank and the ID of the damper and look up on the chart to see if you have the proper press fit. If it is too tight you have a shop hone it out. If it is too loose you return it or throw it away.

The upside down numbers are because someone stupid made that damper. Could be the mfg fault or it could be Summit's fault. Evidently someone in the loop didn't know the difference between a Chevy damper and a Mopar damper. There isn't much you can do about that other than complain to Summit.

If you look close at the picture on the Summit website you'll see that the numbers are upside down in their picture. So if you complain about the numbers they'll probably tell you to pound sand since you got what you ordered. Sorry about that, I've learned that one the hard way myself. I used to assume that everyone would sell me good parts but now after 40 years of working on stuff I've flipped my opinion. Now I assume everyone is too stupid to make good parts and that I have to double check everything before I buy it or install it.

Last edited by AndyF; 07/24/22 04:54 PM.
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062155
07/24/22 04:52 PM
07/24/22 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,269
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,269
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted by 6PAX
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
With the bolt removed, how much of the crank snout is visible in the balancer's bore? IOW, how deep in the bore is the end of the crank snout?


3/8"


I would expect to see less. shruggy

Measure the distance from the shoulder on the crank snout where the balancer bottoms out to the end of the snout. Compare that to the depth of the bore in the balancer to be sure it's actually bottoming out on the shoulder.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: John_Kunkel] #3062170
07/24/22 05:52 PM
07/24/22 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
I checked the water pump pulley belt grooves and they are out of align with the grooves on the crank pulley by the same 3'8" as mentioned previously so I believe the balancer is not on all the way. I will have to get a puller to take it back off to measure the snout and the bore. Assuming the problem is that the balancer is not on all the way and I can get it all the way on using a balancer installation tool, being the timing marks on the balancer are the wrong way could I use timing tape instead? The reason I ask is I bought this balancer about 5 years ago so I know I can't return it but I would like to use it so I'm not out the price I paid for it.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062300
07/25/22 07:57 AM
07/25/22 07:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,767
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,767
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Hope you have a GOOD puller b/c you'll likely break a cheap one trying to get it off. If you have to heat the balancer to get it on, then it's too tight and needs to be honed.
If it's that tight, then it'll gall up bad when you take it off.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed
'71 Demon 340
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3062318
07/25/22 09:30 AM
07/25/22 09:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 683
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
mopar
jwb123  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 683
Missouri
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Hope you have a GOOD puller b/c you'll likely break a cheap one trying to get it off. If you have to heat the balancer to get it on, then it's too tight and needs to be honed.
If it's that tight, then it'll gall up bad when you take it off.


Yep almost all the aftermarket balancers I see need to be honed for proper fit, pulled off plenty that when they were installed rolled metal off, and they did not go on all the way.

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062325
07/25/22 09:53 AM
07/25/22 09:53 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,374
northern,Ohio,USA
C
Clanton Offline
master
Clanton  Offline
master
C

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,374
northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted by 6PAX
I checked the water pump pulley belt grooves and they are out of align with the grooves on the crank pulley by the same 3'8" as mentioned previously so I believe the balancer is not on all the way. I will have to get a puller to take it back off to measure the snout and the bore. Assuming the problem is that the balancer is not on all the way and I can get it all the way on using a balancer installation tool, being the timing marks on the balancer are the wrong way could I use timing tape instead? The reason I ask is I bought this balancer about 5 years ago so I know I can't return it but I would like to use it so I'm not out the price I paid for it.
When you take off the crank bolt you will see how far in the snout is and just some indecation if it is out too far.when you pull the balancer you will need to use a medium hammer to shock the balancer and it will likely come lose.You can use a timing tape but while you have it off you can get it marked for timing by someone.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: Clanton] #3062356
07/25/22 11:04 AM
07/25/22 11:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,484
westerly, ri. usa
4
440lebaron Offline
pro stock
440lebaron  Offline
pro stock
4

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,484
westerly, ri. usa
JUST installed the same one on my 1975 400 stocker, looks like same distance on, had to draw the last 1/2 inch with impact wrench. I used just 1 pulley for mini alternator so no help there, my timing marks look the same set at 35* did not see a problem

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: John_Kunkel] #3062397
07/25/22 01:03 PM
07/25/22 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
6PAX Offline OP
master
6PAX  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,198
MI
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by 6PAX
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
With the bolt removed, how much of the crank snout is visible in the balancer's bore? IOW, how deep in the bore is the end of the crank snout?


3/8"


I would expect to see less. shruggy

Measure the distance from the shoulder on the crank snout where the balancer bottoms out to the end of the snout. Compare that to the depth of the bore in the balancer to be sure it's actually bottoming out on the shoulder.



I pulled the balancer back off today (came off fairly easily) and got the measurements you mentioned John. The depth of the crank to where it bottoms out is 1 5/8" and the depth of the bore in the balancer is 1 25/32".

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: 6PAX] #3062414
07/25/22 01:32 PM
07/25/22 01:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 40,025
Bend,OR USA
I use a good brand (,CAT. Permatex, up:) of anticize on all the balancer I install now wrench up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: Cab_Burge] #3062484
07/25/22 03:43 PM
07/25/22 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,480
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,480
north of coder
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I use a good brand (,CAT. Permatex, up:) of anticize on all the balancer I install now wrench up




this right here. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ up
beer

Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: moparx] #3062559
07/25/22 08:04 PM
07/25/22 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,071
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,071
So. Burlington, Vt.
I’d be a little surprised if there was no mention of honing the damper for fit, and the use of anti-seize lube in the instructions.

But only a little.

Quote
I used to assume that everyone would sell me good parts but now after 40 years of working on stuff I've flipped my opinion. Now I assume everyone is too stupid to make good parts and that I have to double check everything before I buy it or install it.


I assume none of it fits.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Need help with harmonic balancer [Re: fast68plymouth] #3062579
07/25/22 09:43 PM
07/25/22 09:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,609
Michigan
T
Transman Offline
master
Transman  Offline
master
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,609
Michigan
Your third picture shows way too much chain case cover (front crank) seal bore.

Damper is not on far enough.

As for the timing marks - besides the numbers being upside down, what is the issue.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1