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Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) #3060944
07/20/22 01:37 PM
07/20/22 01:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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496 RB, 9.65:1, 24cc dish, .051 quench distance, Eddie RPM's ported to a bit over 300 cfm. Eddie ProFlo4 XT intake, TTI headers with side dump Boom-Tube exhaust. 1.5 ratio rockers (Comp Pro-Magnums) . 3700#.

Current cam is a Comp solid flat, custom spec'd by Brian at IMM in Indio when I was primarily doing the Silver State stuff.. I don't have the exact specs, but it's about .375 - 380 lobe, .610-ish before lash w/1.6's, .555 measured w/1.5's after lash at the valve. Chevy lobes for the easier ramps. 114° LSA. Current springs are COMP 928's, good to about .630 lift with a solid flat. When the cam was spec'd, I was still running 1.6 rockers and a carb. I melted a Crane Gold during Silver State, so I went to the Pro-Magnums, but they are only made in 1.5.

I want to be at the best compromise between the 2 types or racing I do, and account for the 1.5 rockers The engine made 604/647 with the old cam and rockers and ran low 11's consistently. I think it cold handle a bit more cam to focus on the 4500 - 6000 range. The compression is lower than I want, but there isn't much I can do with the combo as it sets except dropping the gasket thickness down to net .040 quench, but it only gains me 0.19 compression.

Needs to be able to:
Silver State Classic Challenge: high speed road stuff, 90 miles at 145 - 165 MPH, 4500 - 5000 RPM
2500 stall tight converter, 2.50 rear gears in a Mopar dimensioned Ford 9"
Rocky Mountain Race Week (Drag-n-Drive, 1400 miles in the mountains and plains, 5 tracks)
5000 stall 8" converter, 4.10's in a Dana 60

Last edited by 67Charger; 07/20/22 03:13 PM.

11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061224
07/21/22 08:01 AM
07/21/22 08:01 AM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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are you thinking of switching to a roller cam or do you want to stay with a flat tappet?


Superior Design Concepts
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Troy MI 48083
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Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061234
07/21/22 08:42 AM
07/21/22 08:42 AM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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I have two suggestions first buy yourself a good engine program, I like performance trends, but there are others. I design every engine on the program, and it has served me well. It predicts a bunch of stuff like idle vacuum, cranking compression, lets you run different octane fuels, and generates a timing curve. If you take the time to input good numbers it gives accurate results. Second, I would get a cam recommendation from Jones cams, he got me several hundredths from my race car, when the last cam slowed it down. http://jonescams.com/

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: Jerry] #3061235
07/21/22 08:46 AM
07/21/22 08:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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I would love to go roller, but it isn't in the budget. I'm in the middle of building a shop and now an unscheduled block replacement for the 496, hopefully in time for Rocky Mountain Race Week 2.0 in early September. I split #5, 2" crack running parallel to the deck about 1/2" down in the outboard quarter of the cylinder. I'm having a replacement block machined to take my rotating assembly, and figured there's never a better time for a cam swap. A roller would need a cam, lifters, springs, button, and oil pump drive at minimum. Probably about $2k all said and done.

I'm really looking to see if there is much to be gained in the 4500-6000 range by adding lift, duration, or going to a different LSA.


11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061250
07/21/22 09:55 AM
07/21/22 09:55 AM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Whats the duration of the cam in it now ?


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061270
07/21/22 10:47 AM
07/21/22 10:47 AM
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Originally Posted by 67Charger


Needs to be able to:
--> 2500 stall tight converter, 2.50 rear gears in a Mopar dimensioned Ford 9"
--> 5000 stall 8" converter, 4.10's in a Dana 60

So, which one is more important? It can't be "right" for both, only a compromise that's less than ideal for either config.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061280
07/21/22 11:17 AM
07/21/22 11:17 AM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
Originally Posted by 67Charger


Needs to be able to:
--> 2500 stall tight converter, 2.50 rear gears in a Mopar dimensioned Ford 9"
--> 5000 stall 8" converter, 4.10's in a Dana 60

So, which one is more important? It can't be "right" for both, only a compromise that's less than ideal for either config.


Quote
I want to be at the best compromise between the 2 types or racing I do


coffee

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: ZIPPY] #3061292
07/21/22 11:44 AM
07/21/22 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,115
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Compromise... the worst of both worlds.

Right up there with "A camel is a horse designed by a committee"

drinking


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: CSK] #3061295
07/21/22 12:03 PM
07/21/22 12:03 PM
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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Originally Posted by csk
Whats the duration of the cam in it now ?


I "THINK" it is Comp's lobe 6333/6334, which would be:

299°/303° rated duration,
268°/272° @ .050 and
.380"/.384" lobe lift.

With 1.5's that's .570/.576 at zero lash, matching my .555 measures after lash on the intake. That means it was .608/.614 with 1.6's @ zero lash

I'll check the specs when I can get home to the cam tonight. Custom ground, and the lobe #s are on the end.

Last edited by 67Charger; 07/21/22 12:04 PM.

11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061328
07/21/22 01:06 PM
07/21/22 01:06 PM
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Posts: 43,095
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Call Bullet and get away from using the Chevy lobes on Mopar size lifters down That is, really DUMB tsk twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: Cab_Burge] #3061377
07/21/22 02:45 PM
07/21/22 02:45 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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I think he needs a very mild lobe, I would get a circle track type lobe for the kind of racing he does.


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: CSK] #3061414
07/21/22 03:26 PM
07/21/22 03:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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According to Brian, the reasoning behind the Chevy lobe was the less aggressive valvetrain motion to handle the sustained time at RPM. Not just RPM, loaded RPM. Closer to circle track than road race or autocross.

How much of a difference is there to be had playing with LSA to optimize the 4500-6000 range? I do feel inclined to get back up to the .600 lift line with the 1.5's, but there is a healthy increase in duration that comes along with that. I'd be at 280° @ .050. to get .590".

Mopar Lobes:

#6587: Adv. 289°, 263° @ .050, Lobe lift .404, Lift w/ @ 1.5 .606
#6588: Adv. 293°, 267° @ .050, Lobe lift .411, Lift w/ @ 1.5 .617

Interesting thing I just noticed: My current 6333 with a 1.6 has .608" with 268° @ .050. Almost the same as the Mopar lobes with 1.5's.


11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061461
07/21/22 05:39 PM
07/21/22 05:39 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Originally Posted by 67Charger
According to Brian, the reasoning behind the Chevy lobe was the less aggressive valvetrain motion to handle the sustained time at RPM. Not just RPM, loaded RPM. Closer to circle track than road race or autocross.

How much of a difference is there to be had playing with LSA to optimize the 4500-6000 range? I do feel inclined to get back up to the .600 lift line with the 1.5's, but there is a healthy increase in duration that comes along with that. I'd be at 280° @ .050. to get .590".

Mopar Lobes:

#6587: Adv. 289°, 263° @ .050, Lobe lift .404, Lift w/ @ 1.5 .606
#6588: Adv. 293°, 267° @ .050, Lobe lift .411, Lift w/ @ 1.5 .617

Interesting thing I just noticed: My current 6333 with a 1.6 has .608" with 268° @ .050. Almost the same as the Mopar lobes with 1.5's.


The cam you have has enough duration , but I would look at 106 to108 lsa & keep the mild lobe, it will work !!!!! we always ran 106ish lsa in our Sprint cars for that coming off the corner power band, it will like the tighter lsa

Last edited by csk; 07/21/22 05:40 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: CSK] #3061513
07/21/22 09:02 PM
07/21/22 09:02 PM
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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lobe 7160 and 7162 on 110°

Screenshot_20220721-185058_Chrome.jpg

11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061521
07/21/22 09:53 PM
07/21/22 09:53 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Originally Posted by 67Charger
lobe 7160 and 7162 on 110°


So is this the cam you have ?


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: CSK] #3061524
07/21/22 10:16 PM
07/21/22 10:16 PM
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Portage,michigan
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Call Dwayne


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: CSK] #3061744
07/22/22 11:18 PM
07/22/22 11:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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yes, on 110° LSA


11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061799
07/23/22 09:51 AM
07/23/22 09:51 AM
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Pattison Texas
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either keep the same lobe you have & ground on 106 lsa or the 7161 & 7163 on a 108 lsa, other than my advice talk to Dwayne Porter, he can also sell you what you need


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 67Charger] #3061867
07/23/22 02:40 PM
07/23/22 02:40 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
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Do your Comp Pro-Magnums have bushings installed? If you melted the Crane Gold (aluminum) rockers, I would be worried that the stainless steel will gull to the rocker shaft?
You might want to look at modifications to get more oil to the top end (rockers, pushrods, and springs) when running the Silver State Classic.
Do you need a new cam? The cam you have seems to be designed for endurance and sustained high RPM.
For the drag racing, a more agressive cam profile and timing would add power, but be harder on the valve train.
A valve cover oil spray bar for the springs and rockers might be a good idea?

Re: Pick me a cam (most loaded question ever!) [Re: 451Mopar] #3062351
07/25/22 10:44 AM
07/25/22 10:44 AM
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Erda, UT
67Charger Offline OP
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The Pro-Magnums are bushed with a teflon/composite looking bushing, The Crane golds are not.

NEED a new cam, no. It was, however, picked when I was still running 1.6 ratio rockers. I've lost a fair bit of lift going down to the 1.5's and I would like it back.

I'll be giving Dwayne a call.


11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023






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