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DIY 727 build questions #3060957
07/20/22 02:11 PM
07/20/22 02:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline OP
mopar
Brad_Haak  Offline OP
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1. What are the "must have" special tools for teardown & reassembly of a 727?

2. What's a reasonable ballpark price for a core BB 727 in the current market?

3. Do you have any preferred suppliers for these tools and/or standard & performance parts for the job?

Thx

Last edited by Brad_Haak; 07/20/22 02:14 PM.
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3060971
07/20/22 02:42 PM
07/20/22 02:42 PM
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Wichita
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GY3 Online content
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1. Clutch spring compressor. Two vice grips with the wide jaws will do in a pinch.

2. Around here a BB cased 727 will run you about $150.

3. I like the Transtar kits but upgrade to the kolene steels and Alto Red clutches if it's for a higher horsepower build. I used to get locally from a supplier but now just go online and get them.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: GY3] #3060987
07/20/22 03:06 PM
07/20/22 03:06 PM
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Western NC
440Jim Offline
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Here is my thoughts on "must have" tools for a simple disassembly and reassembly for freshen-up, not an overhaul with bushings, etc.

0. Something to pull the front pump. Slide hammer, chain, etc.
1. Feeler gauges for setting the clutch pack clearance.
2. Dial indicator to measure the input shaft endplay before and after.
3. Snap ring pliers to take the output shaft snap ring off/on.
4. Expander pliers to open the tail housing bearing retaining ring to get the tail housing off. But a couple screw drivers can get it done.
5. Front clutch compressor to change the seals (and maybe the springs). A home made one gets the job done (pic).

727_clutch_compressor.jpgP818_Clutch_spring_compresser.JPG

1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto, Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: 440Jim] #3061025
07/20/22 04:42 PM
07/20/22 04:42 PM
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I use the same tools as Jim except slide hammers and front clutch tool. For the front clutch I use the center of a steering wheel/ damper puller with a bench vise.
I bought everything from CRT

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: GY3] #3061109
07/20/22 09:27 PM
07/20/22 09:27 PM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline
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Originally Posted by GY3
1. Clutch spring compressor. Two vice grips with the wide jaws will do in a pinch.

2. Around here a BB cased 727 will run you about $150.

3. I like the Transtar kits but upgrade to the kolene steels and Alto Red clutches if it's for a higher horsepower build. I used to get locally from a supplier but now just go online and get them.


This might be a can of worms but I'm starting to research what I'd need to rebuild my 727 in case I hurt it on the spray this year. For 600-ish horsepower @ 4300 pounds, besides the steels/clutches you mention, is there anything else that's a must do? Billet front drum? I've already got a Cheetah RMVB that doesn't have low band apply but I never pedal the car in 1st gear and only downshift to 1st if it's creeping along, and also am trying not to do burnouts in 1st gear either.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061130
07/20/22 10:14 PM
07/20/22 10:14 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
1. What are the "must have" special tools for teardown & reassembly of a 727?

2. What's a reasonable ballpark price for a core BB 727 in the current market?

3. Do you have any preferred suppliers for these tools and/or standard & performance parts for the job?

Thx


Move back to Oregon. I have 727 cores, spare parts and all the tools. I'll even let you borrow my 727 stand.

DSC_1691 (Large).JPG
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: AndyF] #3061225
07/21/22 08:15 AM
07/21/22 08:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline OP
mopar
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^^^ You're killing' me, Andy laugh2

-------------------------------------------------

A brief glance at the local ads shows I can pick up a BB 727 core (or 2) for about $200 +/-. Are there better years or versions to look for, if there's a choice?

Never done a trans, other than what little I did to help 440Jim when he went through mine 20+ years ago. People say "they're easy", but I look at the book I have and still think I might get lost inside one... lots of little sh!t to deal with. confused

-------------------------------------------------

FWIW, one of these CRT kits appears to have just about everything that's been upgraded in my current trans, should I want to build something pretty much from scratch ==> CRT DIY 600-700 HP kit

Last edited by Brad_Haak; 07/21/22 08:29 AM.
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061277
07/21/22 11:12 AM
07/21/22 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,695
Western NC
440Jim Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad_Haak
A brief glance at the local ads shows I can pick up a BB 727 core (or 2) for about $200 +/-. Are there better years or versions to look for, if there's a choice?


I prefer the 1971 and newer. I have seen '77 and '78 van/truck BB 727's with the older 2 spring kickdown servo.
Originally Posted by 440Jim

1970 & earlier:
- narrow bushing high clutch drum with 2 oil ports 180° apart.
- Flat snap ring used in high clutch drum
- corresponding narrow bushing journal on front pump reaction shaft support and large oil port for high clutch piston.
- Solid kickdown servo piston with 1 or 2 springs
- Different piston lip seal dimension wide vs. short lip
- 1966 & earlier had 19 spline input shaft
- 1966 & earlier had 10 spring peg high clutch piston.

1971+:

- Wide bushing high clutch drum with 1 slotted oil port.
- corresponding wider bushing journal on pump reaction shaft support and smaller oil port for high clutch application.
- Controlled load kickdown servo piston with oil cushioned inner piston with only 1 spring (shim solid or plug the side hole in the piston)
- Flex bands introduced
- Wavy snap ring in high clutch drum
- 1967+ had 24 spline input shaft
- 1976+ had 37.5° pressure angle on front planetary for improved strength
- Part throttle kickdown valve added
- Lock-up converters 1978+
- Smaller orifices in VB to feed servos with less harsh shifts
- 15 spring peg high clutch piston

Many more differences......
My notes show the planetary spline pressure angles were:

'62 to '75: 45º
'76 to '93: 37.5º
'94 and later: 30º

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: 440Jim] #3061285
07/21/22 11:23 AM
07/21/22 11:23 AM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Unlike engines, Mopar actually improved the 727 over the years so generally the new stuff is much better than the older "classic" stuff. A late 70's truck or van transmission is a pretty good core and they are typically less expensive than a muscle car core. Just watch out for the lock up ones since they used some special parts that you probably can't use in a performance trans.

I used to be afraid of opening up a transmission. The first 727 that I rebuilt took me about a week to do. I read the book, took some parts off, read the book, took more stuff apart, etc. The second trans took about a day to rebuild and then the third one took half a day. Most of the time is spent cleaning parts since used transmissions can be filthy. Not sure what a pro can do, but once I got familiar with a 727 I could put one together in a couple of hours if all the parts were clean. I'm sure a pro can do it faster than that. They are actually easier to put together than an engine since you don't have to measure as many things. Once you figure them out it is more like putting drum brakes on a car. Lots of springs and frictions and little clips.

Last edited by AndyF; 07/21/22 11:24 AM.
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: 440Jim] #3061287
07/21/22 11:26 AM
07/21/22 11:26 AM
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Western NC
440Jim Offline
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2-cents. twocents
- Shim the rear servo so the cushion spring is almost solid (Brad, I likely did this to yours already or billet)
- A billet (1-piece solid) rear servo with a stronger retainer and stiffer spring is good with low band apply. (See Randy in parts forum).

Rear_Servo_shimmed.jpg
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: AndyF] #3061290
07/21/22 11:33 AM
07/21/22 11:33 AM
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I checked over the 727 in my Duster before the season and it only took a couple of hours to pull valve body, pull the pump, open it up and take a look. Everything looked good so I put it back together and checked the end play. Piece of cake once you have a few tools and know the drill.

DSC_3520 (Large).JPGDSC_3524 (Large).JPGDSC_3529 (Large).JPGDSC_3531 (Large).JPG
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: AndyF] #3061291
07/21/22 11:41 AM
07/21/22 11:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline OP
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Brad_Haak  Offline OP
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@Jim - We (you) put in one of RandyJ's billet servos and the HD spring that came w/ the JW valve body that went in originally

@Andy - Thanks for the words of encouragement... everything "new" is "scary"

@Anybody - Found this a few minutes ago that should be helpful as I begin to search for a core: http://mymopar.com/downloads/transguide.pdf

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061322
07/21/22 12:52 PM
07/21/22 12:52 PM
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north of coder
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the monroe book and a FSM come in handy for things you may have forgotten.
those also show the tools needed, and gives a guy ideas on how to make his own.
just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
beer

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061339
07/21/22 01:27 PM
07/21/22 01:27 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Brad, I'm almost done w/ my first trans rebuild on a 727 out of a 340 Duster. Everyone has always told me the same thing...they're easy to do and no reason I shouldn't be doing it myself. The guy that's always done mine is semi-retired now so he only does a fraction of what he used to...I figured I need to learn how to do it. Taking it apart and reassembling it is the easy part. Knowing what to look for as far as wear patterns and all that is what worries me.

I have the Munroe book https://www.amazon.com/Torqueflite-727-Transmission-Handbook-HP1399/dp/1557883998/ref=sr_1_2?crid=35OEIW119E2MM&keywords=how+to+rebuild+727+transmission+book&qid=1658424307&sprefix=how+to+rebuild+727+transmission+book%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-2

and I've watched this video about 20 times, lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmYAL7i32fA

My trans guy has helped me out w/ some questions I've had too.

The only thing I had to buy was a clutch spring compressor. Got one off amazon for about $50. It looked nice and I didn't want to bother trying to make my own.
If you have a couple of different decent snap ring pliers and some feeler gauges, you should be good.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed
'71 Demon 340
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3061579
07/22/22 10:26 AM
07/22/22 10:26 AM
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racerx Offline
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Taking it apart and reassembling it is the easy part. Knowing what to look for as far as wear patterns and all that is what worries me.
^^^ This is what I'm going through now work (short story) had a transmission that lost reverse at the end of last year, and when came time to tear it down i notice one of the planetary's outer gear had some uneven wear on it. Replace it with a steel planet from Cope ......we shall see how it goes work







Also there's some great homemade tools made hear up

Last edited by racerx; 07/22/22 10:29 AM.
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: racerx] #3061580
07/22/22 10:29 AM
07/22/22 10:29 AM
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline OP
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FWIW, I have the Carl Munroe book and the FSM for reference. My intimidation factor has been reduced a good bit by the responses above. luck

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Brad_Haak] #3061585
07/22/22 10:55 AM
07/22/22 10:55 AM
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S. Central PA
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I did my first 727 in 2016. I disassembled every component and rebuilt it using a variety of components from TSR, A&A, and Coan. I did buy a slide hammer, but do not remember how I managed to work around the other items listed. I tend to get creative when needed. Long story short, I drove the car for the first time on a Saturday night to work, got off Sunday morning, and went straight to the track. I made two time runs, and went three rounds. Trans is still in the car today with zero issues other than checking the band adjustment. There is no need to overthink this.

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: sixpakdodge] #3061635
07/22/22 02:34 PM
07/22/22 02:34 PM
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I use a 3 to 4 foot long big chain,3/8 or bigger to remove the front pump from the tranny. Remove all the bolts holding the pump into the tranny and use two 3./8 by 2 to 4 inches longs bolts with flat washers holding them into the chain links and screw them into the threaded pump holes on each side at 9:00 and 3:00 clock position and jerk on the chain until the pump slides out up scope wrench
Crude and it works boogie grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #3061681
07/22/22 06:05 PM
07/22/22 06:05 PM
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CA
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Take all bolts out of the pump, put in longer bolts that allow for some space, pump to drop, stand on bellhousing and hit tailshaft with a mallet. Pump drops out, no slide hammer needed.

The 727 rebuild video is a great reference as well.

https://youtu.be/nmYAL7i32fA

There are some on youtube by a guy in australia, very good

Re: DIY 727 build questions [Re: crackedback] #3061766
07/23/22 07:36 AM
07/23/22 07:36 AM
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A shed in England
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I've been doing mine for years, ever since I lost gears at the track and a racer helped me fix it whilst there. We got away with just band adjustments at the time but I bought a few books, trawled the 'net and re-built my first one soon after. I made a slide "hammer" to pull the pump housing and a couple of spring compressors for the drums. I had various bits of pipe turned down to use as bearing drifts. I don't have a stand, they go on the bench supported by wooden V blocks, but this makes fitting the drums onto the o/p shaft awkward, easier to do this vertically. I'll get round to sorting something for that one day but so far I've managed.
My approach to rebuilding is modular, I just do the pieces that come out in one lump, ( V/B, pump, front drum, case, etc). Do them one at a time, clean, check, measure, repair and replace (if needed), then set aside ready for refit. Use a good auto box assembly grease and a lip seal installer, take your time, soak the bands and clutches, measure everything and write it down. Air check. So far I've done OK, I did burn up a front clutch pack a couple of seasons after a rebuild but I didn't replace the front pack as they were still within spec (albeit on the loose side). Lesson learned wink . I have been asked to build 'box's for other's but it's not something I want to get into, I usually encourage them to do there own.
I usually refresh a box after 4 seasons but we don't race as much here, as you guys do over the water. 6 or 7 meetings a year if I don't bust stuff from wheelstands, which I have done for 4 years running now blush. I get my parts from various vendors, CRT, Marsh performance, A&A etc. H/D Bands and racing clutches (Alto Kolene) are readily available over here, or they at least used to be. I have a good selection of spares.
HTH's up


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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