Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3058105
07/11/22 04:54 AM
07/11/22 04:54 AM
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Posts: 7,863 Colorado
Leadfoot
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Because if an electric car could create enough power to propel itself indefinitely you would have created perpetual motion for the first time in the history of the world. Newton says that can't be possible.
Last edited by PINKCUDA; 07/11/22 04:54 AM.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Leadfoot]
#3058138
07/11/22 09:03 AM
07/11/22 09:03 AM
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6PakBee
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I Live Here
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Because if an electric car could create enough power to propel itself indefinitely you would have created perpetual motion for the first time in the history of the world. Newton says that can't be possible. The US Patent Office has granted patents on perpetual motion so it must work! Perpetual Motion Patents
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3058202
07/11/22 12:22 PM
07/11/22 12:22 PM
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Sniper
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I am not asking for perpetual motion, just add a couple alternators to give extended range! Racers have been putting pulley's on driveshafts for years hanging an alternator close the the rear end, so any rotating member could be used to put on a pulley and hang an alternator somewhere... What would that accomplish? What do you think is driving those alternators? Besides, the battery pack requires a heck of a lot more voltage than any alternator you might hang on a driveshaft, or wherever. EV's already use regenerative braking to recoup energy to some extent. Read up on that because it sounds like you don't know what that is. At any other time the motor is driving things and all you are doing is wasting more power than you could recoup driving something to charge the batteries. Anytime energy changes state (electricity to mechanical, or mechanical to electricity) you have conversion losses. It the cost of doing the conversion. What the percentage of energy is lost is varies depending on how efficient the device is but absolutely zero of the them are 100% efficient. So you lose just in the conversions involved and you'd end up with worse mileage than you started with. Even if you could make them 100% efficient you'd have a wash, same in as out. You'd have to be more than 100% efficient to gain anything and that's perpetual motion.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Sniper]
#3058253
07/11/22 02:19 PM
07/11/22 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,637 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Rhinotruck
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I am not asking for perpetual motion, just add a couple alternators to give extended range! Racers have been putting pulley's on driveshafts for years hanging an alternator close the the rear end, so any rotating member could be used to put on a pulley and hang an alternator somewhere... What would that accomplish? What do you think is driving those alternators? Besides, the battery pack requires a heck of a lot more voltage than any alternator you might hang on a driveshaft, or wherever. EV's already use regenerative braking to recoup energy to some extent. Read up on that because it sounds like you don't know what that is. At any other time the motor is driving things and all you are doing is wasting more power than you could recoup driving something to charge the batteries. Anytime energy changes state (electricity to mechanical, or mechanical to electricity) you have conversion losses. It the cost of doing the conversion. What the percentage of energy is lost is varies depending on how efficient the device is but absolutely zero of the them are 100% efficient. So you lose just in the conversions involved and you'd end up with worse mileage than you started with. Even if you could make them 100% efficient you'd have a wash, same in as out. You'd have to be more than 100% efficient to gain anything and that's perpetual motion. I know what regenerative braking is, known it for decades. Posts like yours just say "nothing can be done" and leaves it at that. I am asking for a paradigm shift in thinking, so what you are saying is that there is no reason to even try. ANY help keeping the batteries charged is better than just saying "it won't work"...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3058306
07/11/22 04:16 PM
07/11/22 04:16 PM
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I know what regenerative braking is, known it for decades. Posts like yours just say "nothing can be done" and leaves it at that. I am asking for a paradigm shift in thinking, so what you are saying is that there is no reason to even try. ANY help keeping the batteries charged is better than just saying "it won't work"... I didn't say nothing can be done. I said your idea can't be done successfully. Multiple people have told you it won't work, it violates the laws of physics no matter how hard you roll your eyes. You want to do something to charge an EV while it's in use? Put solar panels on it, mind the aerodynamics. Get one of those old WWII hand crank generators and get your cardio while you are at it. Ultimately, the only idea I have heard that might be actually functional and not pie in the sky "I don't know what I am talking about but it sure sounds good listening to me talk" thinking is a wireless charging system imbedded in the roads. No idea on cost effectiveness or charging efficiency.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Sniper]
#3058350
07/11/22 06:24 PM
07/11/22 06:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,637 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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I know what regenerative braking is, known it for decades. Posts like yours just say "nothing can be done" and leaves it at that. I am asking for a paradigm shift in thinking, so what you are saying is that there is no reason to even try. ANY help keeping the batteries charged is better than just saying "it won't work"... I didn't say nothing can be done. I said your idea can't be done successfully. Multiple people have told you it won't work, it violates the laws of physics no matter how hard you roll your eyes. You want to do something to charge an EV while it's in use? Put solar panels on it, mind the aerodynamics. Get one of those old WWII hand crank generators and get your cardio while you are at it. Ultimately, the only idea I have heard that might be actually functional and not pie in the sky "I don't know what I am talking about but it sure sounds good listening to me talk" thinking is a wireless charging system imbedded in the roads. No idea on cost effectiveness or charging efficiency. I talked about the road charging earlier. I just figured there are a few smart people here on the board who might think beyond "the law of physics". Those laws only apply on this planet I am pretty sure...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3058370
07/11/22 07:25 PM
07/11/22 07:25 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,330 nowhere
Sniper
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I know what regenerative braking is, known it for decades. Posts like yours just say "nothing can be done" and leaves it at that. I am asking for a paradigm shift in thinking, so what you are saying is that there is no reason to even try. ANY help keeping the batteries charged is better than just saying "it won't work"... I didn't say nothing can be done. I said your idea can't be done successfully. Multiple people have told you it won't work, it violates the laws of physics no matter how hard you roll your eyes. You want to do something to charge an EV while it's in use? Put solar panels on it, mind the aerodynamics. Get one of those old WWII hand crank generators and get your cardio while you are at it. Ultimately, the only idea I have heard that might be actually functional and not pie in the sky "I don't know what I am talking about but it sure sounds good listening to me talk" thinking is a wireless charging system imbedded in the roads. No idea on cost effectiveness or charging efficiency. I talked about the road charging earlier. I just figured there are a few smart people here on the board who might think beyond "the law of physics". Those laws only apply on this planet I am pretty sure... One wonders where you got your engineering degree, Cracker Jack box?
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3058491
07/12/22 07:13 AM
07/12/22 07:13 AM
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360view
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I talked about the road charging earlier. I just figured there are a few smart people here on the board who might think beyond "the law of physics". Those laws only apply on this planet I am pretty sure... There is a huge number of Neutrinos passing through us and our vehicles all the time. That flux of Neutrinos has energy, but since we do not even know the mass of those various “flavors” of Neutrinos we are ignorant of even the amount of energy, and clueless how to power something from the flux. It gets worse, Physics does not know if there is “Dark Matter” or “Dark Energy” although we see behavior out in space that hints there might be. It is not unreasonable to wonder if in the future electric vehicles can tap into presently unknown power sources.
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