Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Oil for Alcohol Engines #3052252
06/21/22 08:45 PM
06/21/22 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 936
MI, Lapeer
M
maximus Offline OP
super stock
maximus  Offline OP
super stock
M

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 936
MI, Lapeer
Which oils are you alcohol guys using? I understand some oils will seperate from alcohol and others with evaporate moisture after sitting, then being reused. Which way to go with oil? Hilborn Stack injection on my motor.

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052258
06/21/22 09:09 PM
06/21/22 09:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19,094
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19,094
PA.


Penn Grade (Brad Penn, Kendall) user here. Learning how and what to do is the secret. Never start the engine just to start it. And when you do run it get it up to temperature with a lean out valve or a primer plus system on gas. Some guys insist on running a vacuum pump but using a carb I can keep my oil nice without one.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052282
06/21/22 10:17 PM
06/21/22 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,473
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,473
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I use VR1 20w50. Heat is the key. I get mine up to 210 or so . Best if you can run a primer plus. But you can't do that with stack injection, so a squirt or two of gas into the stacks and alky off will help clear it. Your system may need some time for the lines to empty, like mine. I have to wait for a minute, crank with ignition on and alky off. After it will no longer fire, then squirt a little gas in it and crank some more. Use of fogging oil might be a help in keeping the bores in nice shape between races.


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052328
06/22/22 08:35 AM
06/22/22 08:35 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,332
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,332
Aurora, Colorado
When I switched to E-85 , I used RedLine Oil. No problems, but a bit more expensive.

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: 451Mopar] #3052385
06/22/22 12:14 PM
06/22/22 12:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,868
Byron, NY
W.I.N. racing Offline
top fuel
W.I.N. racing  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,868
Byron, NY
I use either Brad Penn or Lucas straight weight oil (in my case 70wgt). After each outing I dump the oil into a dedicated drain pan then "Boil" it in a crock pot until free of H2O and alc. Alc boils at 100deg F and H2O at 212deg F. I then pour it into clean bucket through a paint strainer.[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/ottA_UWOblY[/video]

IMG_3666[1].JPG

'02 D1500, Blown/Inj KB, Veny Heads,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60
'01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust,
'05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list
'60 Willys CJ5
'01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison
'64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: W.I.N. racing] #3052416
06/22/22 01:47 PM
06/22/22 01:47 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline
mopar
Wirenut  Offline
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Ct
Been using mobile one older vehicle formula 10/40 or 20/50 depending on weather/temp .
Tune up and shut down temp are everything.

Get the oil tested until you get the hang of it

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052423
06/22/22 02:31 PM
06/22/22 02:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 654
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
mopar
jwb123  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 654
Missouri
just to throw this out there, Menthol has a broader range of air fuel ratio that it will make power. So you can run rich and the performance does not suffer all that much. But the richer it is the more fuel you get in your oil. Gasoline has a much narrower air fuel ratio so if you are rich it runs like crap.

https://www.racingjunk.com/news/weather-considerations-for-racing-methanol/

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: jwb123] #3052449
06/22/22 04:10 PM
06/22/22 04:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,704
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,704
NW Indiana
Been using HPL oil with great results.

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052492
06/22/22 06:32 PM
06/22/22 06:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 931
Usa
A
A39Coronet Offline
super stock
A39Coronet  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 931
Usa
I don't disagree with anything said but one thing to keep in mind is getting the coolant temp up to "hot" doesn't automatically equate to hot oil, and that's what you're after to get out the moisture. Ive seen folks run all Saturday never getting above 150* and then lean out to 200*+ for the trip from the ticket booth to the trailer at the end of the day. I can't imagine that does very much in that regard.


Follow my G3 Hemi Barracuda build on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDAWczXoZw&list=PLTus_wQu8POADHEeJNJp2nr4NMHEyB9EK

2015 Tri-State Stock Super Stock Champion
2017 Monster Mopar Pro Winner
2018 Monster Mopar No Box Winner
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: A39Coronet] #3052503
06/22/22 06:55 PM
06/22/22 06:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19,094
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19,094
PA.
Originally Posted by A39Coronet
I don't disagree with anything said but one thing to keep in mind is getting the coolant temp up to "hot" doesn't automatically equate to hot oil, and that's what you're after to get out the moisture. Ive seen folks run all Saturday never getting above 150* and then lean out to 200*+ for the trip from the ticket booth to the trailer at the end of the day. I can't imagine that does very much in that regard.




I heat soak my engine one or two classes before I’m called then again in the lanes. After I make a 1/8 mile pass I turn off my water pump and can driving back to the pits. I burn 1/2-3/4 gallon a pass doing this after first fire up.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: pittsburghracer] #3052528
06/22/22 08:06 PM
06/22/22 08:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 931
Usa
A
A39Coronet Offline
super stock
A39Coronet  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 931
Usa
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by A39Coronet
I don't disagree with anything said but one thing to keep in mind is getting the coolant temp up to "hot" doesn't automatically equate to hot oil, and that's what you're after to get out the moisture. Ive seen folks run all Saturday never getting above 150* and then lean out to 200*+ for the trip from the ticket booth to the trailer at the end of the day. I can't imagine that does very much in that regard.




I heat soak my engine one or two classes before I’m called then again in the lanes. After I make a 1/8 mile pass I turn off my water pump and can driving back to the pits. I burn 1/2-3/4 gallon a pass doing this after first fire up.


Same here John, keeps the oil hot and I'd rather have to try and get rid of coolant heat before a run than race against the clock trying to add it in. Boils the water out all day long.


Follow my G3 Hemi Barracuda build on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDAWczXoZw&list=PLTus_wQu8POADHEeJNJp2nr4NMHEyB9EK

2015 Tri-State Stock Super Stock Champion
2017 Monster Mopar Pro Winner
2018 Monster Mopar No Box Winner
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: A39Coronet] #3052593
06/23/22 01:07 AM
06/23/22 01:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,310
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,310
Bend,OR USA
I put electric heat senders in the oil pan, tranny front servo and front of the water pump housing and ran all three through rotary switch so I can see temps in all three on the same gauge individually by turning the knob: up: scope wrench


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: Cab_Burge] #3052606
06/23/22 08:00 AM
06/23/22 08:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 936
MI, Lapeer
M
maximus Offline OP
super stock
maximus  Offline OP
super stock
M

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 936
MI, Lapeer
Should have stated no cooling system, FED on M1 methanol. Yea, I know my first non Mopar engine. It came with the car. Hemi Dart next to it should make up for it.

SAM_2118.JPG
Last edited by maximus; 06/23/22 08:03 AM.
Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052633
06/23/22 09:48 AM
06/23/22 09:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,704
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,704
NW Indiana
Cool Dragster!

Re: Oil for Alcohol Engines [Re: maximus] #3052699
06/23/22 12:23 PM
06/23/22 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 10
MI
J
Jeff440sc Offline
member
Jeff440sc  Offline
member
J

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 10
MI

Have you guys ever heard of Schaeffer's oil? They been around since 1839 , and I would say its like Penn oil but better. It looks like Penn oil because it may be coming from the same green base oil.
I have been using their oil for the last 4 years and wont switch back to any other brand.

You will find some Blackstone reports on the web for 20/50 for the oil if you have doubts....its got plenty of zinc and Phosphorous
They even have a tech line...

You may want to try the 110 Micron Moly
I have been using the 705 Supreme 20W-50 with E-85 and never had a issue but I will probably switch the the 110 because it was designed for alcohol-based fuels.
Here are the specs for the 705 and the Micron Moly

I don't promote things that I don't use myself...I am not affiliated to the company.

https://www.schaefferoil.com/sds-technical-data-sheets.html

#705 SUPREME 7000 SYNTHETIC PLUS™ RACING OIL SAE 20W-50
API SM
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is a premium quality high zinc, multi-grade
para-synthetic engine oil that is specially formulated to reduce friction and wear, increase engine
efficiency and extend engine life in all types of gasoline engines including those that contain flat
tappet cams and those that are turbocharged or supercharged.
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is blended from the finest quality severely
hydrotreated polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids and severely raffinate hydroconverted
Group II Plus available. This unique combination provides Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing
Oil SAE 20W-50 with the following advantages:
1. Superior Cold Weather Startability and Operating Characteristics - This results in less
friction and lubricant drag in the engine and instant lubrication during cold weather start up
2. Superior Oxidative Stability
3. Excellent Resistance to Thermal Degradation
4. Excellent Low Volatility Characteristics - This results in reduced oil consumption and
increased protection against the formation of deposits
5. Lower Pour Point and Borderline Pumping Temperature
6. A High Viscosity Index - This results in minimum change in viscosity. The adequate viscosity
for the proper lubrication of the engine is provided regardless of temperature.
7. Excellent Film Strength - This results in increased protection against wear.
8. Compatibility with All Types of Seals
9. Extended Oil Drain Capability and Intervals
Blended into the para-synthetic base stocks is a highly advanced proprietary performance racing
formula additive package and a highly shear stable viscosity index improver. This combination
provides the Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus Racing™ Oil SAE 20W-50 with the following
performance benefits:
1. Extra zinc anti-wear additives to protect flat-tappet cams from excessive wear
2. A novel zinc anti-wear additive system that minimizes volatility and chemical
breakdown of the zinc anti-wear additive in order to provide maximum and long lasting
anti-wear performance and robustness needed to protect the engine
3. Outstanding protection against the formation of high temperature deposits
4. High detergency and dispercency to suppress the formation of deposits, sludge and
varnish
5. Active cleaning agents for increased and enhanced engine cleanliness
6. Exceptional protection against the formation of coking deposits on turbochargers
7. Exceptional protection against thermal breakdown during high engine oil operating
temperature conditions
8. Rapid circulation and excellent pumpability
9. Excellent low temperature flow characteristics and pumpability to provide rapid
circulation and minimize wear during start-up
TD-705 (Rev. 09/2013)
TD-705
Page 2
10. Excellent resistance to thinning at high temperatures
11. Excellent shear stability to resist viscosity shear down and breakdown
12. Excellent high temperature/high shear performance to provide excellent oil film
thickness and engine protection at high operating temperatures and shear rates, while
minimizing lubricant frictional resistance
13. Enhanced lubrication to maintain maximum horsepower and acceleration
14. Substantially reduced oil consumption
15. Extra protection for hot running engines
16. Extra protection for cold running engines in stop-and-go service
17. Reduced oil ageing allowing for increased drain intervals
18. A substantial reduction in ring and cylinder wear
19. Reduced bearing wear and increased bearing life
20. Excellent rust and bearing corrosion protection
21. Increased engine cleanliness
22. Superior valve train-wear protection
23. Increased engine life
24. Excellent anti-foaming properties
Further blended into these synthetic blend base fluids, the highly advanced proprietary performance
additive package and shear stability viscosity index improver are two proven frictional modifiers,
Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg’s own proprietary additive Penetro .
These two proven frictional modifiers once plated, form a long lasting slippery tenacious lubricant
film, which prevents the metal surfaces from coming into contact with each other. By preventing
metal-to-metal contact, damaging frictional wear is prevented from occurring. This prevention of
metal-to-metal contact and reduction in wear results in:
* Increased fuel economy
* A low coefficient of friction
* Significantly less bearing, ring, piston, cylinder, and valve-train wear
* Increased engine efficiency, durability and life
* Less down-time which reduces maintenance costs
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 can be used in most types of 4-cycle aircooled or water-cooled motorcycle and ATV engines including those motorcycles that have a
common sump for the engine and transmission (non-metallic clutches only).
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is not recommended for use in those
motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 in applications that specify JASO
MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms.
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is also not recommended for use in
4-cycle marine engines that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W four cycle engine oil.
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus™ Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 meets and exceeds the following
specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: MIL-PRE- 46152E, CID A-A-52039B, API Service
Classification SM, Ford ,General Motors, Chrysler; specifications and JASO JIS K2215
specifications.




SAE Grade 20W-50
Viscosity @ 40C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 129.5-166.5
Viscosity @ 100C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 16.5-20.00
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 140
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity 302F/150C, cP
(ASTM D-4683) 5.31
Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D-5293)@-15C, cP 3,506
Mini Rotary Viscosity TP-1 @ -20, cP (ASTM D-4683) 23,400
Scanning Brookfield Gelation Index @ -11F/-24C 3.9
Flash Point F/C (ASTM D-92) 400/204.56
Fire Point F/C (ASTM D-92) 505/262.78
Stable Pour Point F/C (FTM 7916 Method 203) <-41/<-42
Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 7.5
Sulfated Ash Content % wt (ASTM D-874) 0.9
Orban Shear Stability (ASTM D-7109)
% Loss @ 30 Passes 5
% Loss @ 90 Passes 10.3
Copper Strip Corrosion Test (ASTM D-130) 1a
NOACK Volatility %Evaporation Loss (ASTM D-5800) 7.5%
Foam Test (ASTM D-892)
Sequence I 0/0
Sequence II 0/0
Sequence III 0/0
Sequence IV 0/0
High Temperature Foam Test (ASTM D6082 Option A) 0/0
MHT-4 TEOST (ASTM 6335)
Deposit Weight, mg 23.8
Engine Rusting Ball and Rust Test (ASTM D-6557)
Average Gray Value 133
Zinc Content, ppm 1600-2000
Phosphorous, ppm 1300-1900
----------------------------
]
#110 MICRON MOLY® RACING OIL SAE 30, 40 and 50
Micron Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade is a superior quality straight grade high zinc formula engine oil
that is specially formulated to reduce friction and wear, increase engine efficiency and extend the engine
life of high performance gasoline engines including those that contain flat tappet cams and those engines
that are turbocharged or supercharged. Micron Moly Racing Oil Straight Grade is also designed for those
engines that are designed to burn alcohol based racing fuels.
Micron Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade is blended from the highest quality solvent refined, severely
hydro finished, high viscosity index, 100% paraffin base stocks and proprietary performance racing
formula additive package to provide the following performance benefits:
• Outstanding protection against the formation of high temperature deposits.
• Exceptional protection against thermal breakdown during high engine oil operating temperatures.
• Extra zinc anti-wear additives to protect flat tappet cam engines and other highly stressed engine
components from excessive wear.
• Extra protection for hot running engines.
• Substantially reduced oil consumption.
• Extra protection for cold running engines in stop-and-go service.
• High detergency and dispersancy to suppress the formation of deposits sludge and varnish.
• Reduced oil ageing allowing for increased drain intervals.
• High lubricity for substantial reduction in ring and cylinder wear.
• Reduced bearing wear and increased bearing life.
• Excellent rust and bearing corrosion protection.
• Increased engine cleanliness and engine life.
• Superior valve train-wear protection.
• A positive compression seal and excellent film strength.
• Excellent anti-foaming properties.
• Excellent performance with alcohol-based racing fuels.
Further blended into Mircon Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron
Moly®, a liquid soluble type of moly and Schaeffer Mfg’s own proprietary additive Penetro. Once plated,
these frictional modifiers form a long lasting, slippery, tenacious lubricant film, which prevents metal-tometal contact and damaging frictional wear which results in:
• Increased fuel economy
• A low coefficient of friction
• Significantly less bearing, ring, piston, cylinder, and valve-train wear.
• Increased engine efficiency, durability, and life
• Less down-time which reduces maintenance costs
Micron Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade meets and exceeds the following specifications and
manufacturers’ requirements: MIL-PRE- 46152E, CID A-A-52039B, API Service Classification SM, Ford,
GM, Chrysler.
Micron Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV
applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of Micron Moly® Racing Oil
Straight Grade in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper
engagement of the clutch mechanisms.
TD-110 (REV 04/2022)
2
Micron Moly® Racing Oil Straight Grade is not recommended for use in 4-cycle marine
engines that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W four cycle engine oil.
TYPICAL PROPERTIES
SAE Grade 30 40 50
Viscosity @ 40 C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 87.5-94.5 170-180 220-230
Viscosity @ 100 C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 10.5-12.0 14.00-15.5 18.00-19.5
High Temperature High Shear Viscosity
@ 302F/150C, cP (ASTM D-4683) 3.5 4.0 4.0
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 102 100 102
Flash Point F/C (ASTM D-92) 455/235 465/241 500/260
Fire Point F/C (ASTM D-92) 490/254 500/260 535/279
Pour Point F/C (ASTM D-97) 0/-18 10/-12.2 20/-6.7
Sulfated Ash Content % WT
(ASTM D-874)
1.0 1.0 1.0
Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 7.5 7.5 7.5
Copper Strip Corrosion (ASTM D-130) 1a 1a 1a
NOACK Volatility %Evaporation Loss (ASTM
D-5800)
10% 10% 10%
Foam Test (ASTM D-892)
Sequence I 0/0 0/0 0/0
Sequence II 0/0 0/0 0/0
Sequence III 0/0 0/0 0/0
Sequence IV 0/0 0/0 0/0
High Temperature Foam Test
(ASTM D6082 Option A) 0/0 0/0 0/0
MHT-4 TEOST (ASTM 6335)
Deposit Weight, mg 23.8 23.8 23.8
Engine Rusting Ball and Rust Test
(ASTM D-6557) Average Gray Value 133 133 133
Zinc Content, ppm 1400-1800 1400-1800 1400-1800
Phosphorus, ppm 1300-1700 1300-1700 1300-1700







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1