Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Is it a bad converter? #3048507
06/07/22 06:19 AM
06/07/22 06:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446 Offline OP
mopar
rb446  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
Let me just run this past you guys....I'm helping a long time mate who's running a street/strip '70 Challenger, more strip than street motor wise, weighs approx 3800lbs, all steel, with a 440 thats making around 550fwhp on track as he's run 121mph@11.06 with 1.56 60's.
Motor spec is approx 10.8:1, ported Eddy heads, .583 SFT cam with 1.6 rockers, don't know duration yet, M1, +1" spacer and an 830cfm DP....just had the 727 rebuilt with all good parts fmvb, and just put in a used TCI 10" super street fighter verter (142222) that he says flashes close to 5k on the hit. The cars picked up .5 sec in ET so he's well happy.

Issue is that inputting 550hp into wallace with 3800lbs, 3.91 gears and 28" slicks it comes up with 11.06@121 with a 1.54 60 BUT at 5678 trap rpm+slip, he's hitting the limiter at 6500 in the traps, pushed it up to 6700 and still hitting it and he says its still pulling, thats 20% slip!!!...what do you guys think may be going on here, any thoughts....weight/gearing doesn't help I know but if its still pulling is he blowing through the verter?, I doubt it re the good mph. Should've had a race verter built he says, he's right.

cheers.


Last edited by rb446; 06/07/22 06:30 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3048549
06/07/22 10:33 AM
06/07/22 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
Fundamentally, a properly functioning 10” converter won’t stall 5k behind a N/A stock stroke 440.

The really high stall and the 20% top end slip are caused by whatever the same issue in the converter is(which could be that it was modified to provide 5000 stall).

That being said, a “properly functioning” normal 10” converter, doing its normal thing....... flashing to 3800-is(behind that motor)...... might be a step backwards in the ET dept.
On the other hand....... the current 10” unit may not be long for this world.

A “really tight” 8” should give you the 5000 flash....... without the 20% slippage.

Most places will probably recommend a 9.5” in the 4500 range.
I can’t say that’s a bad choice for a street/strip ride.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3048557
06/07/22 10:59 AM
06/07/22 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
top fuel
DusterKid  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
Could his tach be off? Just something else to consider, but sounds like it's blowing thru the convertor.

Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: DusterKid] #3048558
06/07/22 11:03 AM
06/07/22 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
I considered the tac as well(had a problem with one myself), but since he said it’s hitting the rev limiter....... I figured it’s probably not the tac.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3048600
06/07/22 12:47 PM
06/07/22 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446 Offline OP
mopar
rb446  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
Yeah I suggested he try another tach as well Dwayne but I doubt if its that either. He used to run a hughes 3500 which he said he may put back in, I hope not, the cars a dog with that compared and goes 1.65 60's and mid 11's. He said he was going to lose some weight which will help and I suggested he go to 4.10's with a 29" tyre or tbh a 9x30 would be better still I think, I was going to suggest 4.30's but I think I'm pushing my luck there.... the car sits level and he's not cutting it up so perhaps 30's are out, he runs QA1 shocks but its not going to get a mini tub.

My other mate ran an 8" 5000 stall by ATI he had made and that trapped at 67>6800 behind a 3150lb Dart with a 600hp 440, 4.56/31" tyre combo, Perhaps he'll go for it and have 1 made, I think thats the answer and the fix, a built 8 or 9.5", I've never come across any converter in any car that slips 20%. My old 440 car with an 8" 4800stall only slipped 8% Na and 11% on N20.

He's a bit concerned about the rpm, not keen on going 7k on the limiter, it has internal oiling which I've never been a fan of but don't want to go there and put that into his head, many run the 1/2" pipe with no issues to past 7k I know. He runs his own garage and is a good listener and wants to learn more, why he listens to me I don't know shruggy smile

Last edited by rb446; 06/07/22 01:33 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3048624
06/07/22 02:07 PM
06/07/22 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
5000 stall and 20% slip out of a 10” is reminiscent of something from GER.

I’m not really a Hughes fan either.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3048897
06/08/22 01:24 PM
06/08/22 01:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,342
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,342
north of coder
GER. now that's a name i haven't heard for a while. [thankfully ! biggrin]
in fact, that reminded me, i have one of those new in the box still collecting dust on the top shelf.......
beer

Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: moparx] #3049055
06/09/22 06:03 AM
06/09/22 06:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
top fuel
DusterKid  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
My dad went thru the whole GER issues in the late 90s I guess it was. Bought one and it broke after a few weeks, sent it back and got it replaced to only break a few weeks later. Called them and now he has the "wrong" size convertor so he sent it back and got the "correct" one. A few weeks later that one broke and he finally thru it under the bench. A year or 2 later he found a fairly local guy that did convertor work. The guy worked for ATI I think at one point and said GER weren't that bad, but they used cheap bearings and that's what would fail. He repaired whatever needed to be done and we ran it for almost a decade before it broke. Had it repaired by the guy again and used it a few more years before we replaced it with a 8" Coan that I got that was busted and our convertor guy fixed.

Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3049057
06/09/22 06:20 AM
06/09/22 06:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
What was the trap mph, rpm and slip BEFORE the converter was replaced ?
TCI specs state "up to 4000rpm stall" with the caveat "dependent upon motor combination"for that particular model. Could be the issue is elsewhere in the 'box ?


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: Tig] #3049104
06/09/22 11:59 AM
06/09/22 11:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446 Offline OP
mopar
rb446  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
Originally Posted by Tig
What was the trap mph, rpm and slip BEFORE the converter was replaced ?
TCI specs state "up to 4000rpm stall" with the caveat "dependent upon motor combination"for that particular model. Could be the issue is elsewhere in the 'box ?


Hey Tig, this is Jim Smiths red challenger you know the one. He had a hughes 3500 in it before, going 11.5>6's@116>117+'s. 1.65>1.66 60's. Faults found in 727, rebuilt with all good parts and this converter, don't know the rpm prior but picked up .5>6 10ths and 4mph and now doing 1.56 60's. He prob would've picked up some with just the box being rebuilt as rear clutches were toast, how much the verter is helping I don't know but as said near 6800rpm@the stripe is not conducive with 3.91/28" tyre combo and 555fwhp in 3800lbs.

60 Foot E.T. : 1.54 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.98 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 97.40 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.06 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121 MPH
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 5,689 RPM+20%=6826

http://etslips.co.uk/Ticket.php?ts=2022-06-04%2020:09:41

Last edited by rb446; 06/09/22 12:06 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3049111
06/09/22 12:28 PM
06/09/22 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,746
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Online content
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Online Content
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,746
Rio Linda, CA
You do realize that trap speed is measured over a distance of 66 feet? Your actual (unknown) speed at the end of 66 feet could be a lot higher than the time slip shows... depending on how hard the car pulls at the stripe.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: John_Kunkel] #3049122
06/09/22 01:00 PM
06/09/22 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
If I did the math right...... at an average speed of 121mph over the last 66ft....... that distance would be covered in .372 seconds.
I can’t imagine there being a big change in engine rpm in the last .372 seconds.

If the engine was still accelerating at 300rpm/sec at that part of the racetrack, the change would be 111rpm from the beginning to end of the 66ft......... or 56rpm from the mid-point of the speed trap to the end.
But I doubt an 11sec combo with a loose converter is still seeing a 300rpm/sec increase at that part of the run.

Someone running similar times in a combo with similar behavior, that has a datalogger could better answer that.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3049131
06/09/22 01:31 PM
06/09/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,117
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,117
Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
...

Most places will probably recommend a 9.5” in the 4500 range.
I can’t say that’s a bad choice for a street/strip ride.

My Dynamic 9.5" flashed to ~ 4500 behind my 440 (452) and showed 7-8% slippage, which was a big improvement over the JW 10" "3800" that flashed to 4200 and was something like 10-11% slippage.

Car picked up .2 and 2 MPH from the converter swap, even though the 60-ft didn't change much. Same converter in the car as the engine evolved from low 11s to mid 10s... and it'll be in there when it's back out again w/ more HP. If nothing else, I got a baseline from which to change converters, if needed.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3049135
06/09/22 01:37 PM
06/09/22 01:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,117
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
super stock

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,117
Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by rb446

Hey Tig, this is Jim Smiths red challenger you know the one. He had a hughes 3500 in it before, going 11.5>6's@116>117+'s. 1.65>1.66 60's. Faults found in 727, rebuilt with all good parts and this converter, don't know the rpm prior but picked up .5>6 10ths and 4mph and now doing 1.56 60's. He prob would've picked up some with just the box being rebuilt as rear clutches were toast, how much the verter is helping I don't know but as said near 6800rpm@the stripe is not conducive with 3.91/28" tyre combo and 555fwhp in 3800lbs.

60 Foot E.T. : 1.54 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.98 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 97.40 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.06 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121 MPH
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 5,689 RPM+20%=6826

IIRC, one of my older combinations ran very similar times...
- low 1.5s
- 6.9*-7.0*
- 97-98 MPH
- 10.9* to 11.0*
-121-122 MPH

... but with 4.10s and 28" tall tires, was only trapping 6400-6500 w/ the Dynamic 9.5" I just mentioned above. That's a big slippage difference right there.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3049165
06/09/22 04:25 PM
06/09/22 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Originally Posted by rb446
Originally Posted by Tig
What was the trap mph, rpm and slip BEFORE the converter was replaced ?
TCI specs state "up to 4000rpm stall" with the caveat "dependent upon motor combination"for that particular model. Could be the issue is elsewhere in the 'box ?


Hey Tig, this is Jim Smiths red challenger you know the one. He had a hughes 3500 in it before, going 11.5>6's@116>117+'s. 1.65>1.66 60's. Faults found in 727, rebuilt with all good parts and this converter, don't know the rpm prior but picked up .5>6 10ths and 4mph and now doing 1.56 60's. He prob would've picked up some with just the box being rebuilt as rear clutches were toast, how much the verter is helping I don't know but as said near 6800rpm@the stripe is not conducive with 3.91/28" tyre combo and 555fwhp in 3800lbs.

60 Foot E.T. : 1.54 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.98 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 97.40 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.06 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121 MPH
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 5,689 RPM+20%=6826

http://etslips.co.uk/Ticket.php?ts=2022-06-04%2020:09:41


Jim ran 119 a couple of times last year and a few 11.4's I thought he was doing well then !! Slip seems excessive.......I'd be dropping the trans pan, looking at the fluid and looking for any excessive build up of clutch fibre in the bottom of the pan. If there is non or it's nominal it may be the converter ???


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: Tig] #3049180
06/09/22 05:51 PM
06/09/22 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
If the high gear clutch was slipping bad enough to raise the trap RPM, the 2/3 shift would be flaring.
Doug

Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: Tig] #3049286
06/10/22 04:18 AM
06/10/22 04:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446 Offline OP
mopar
rb446  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
Originally Posted by Tig
Originally Posted by rb446
Originally Posted by Tig
What was the trap mph, rpm and slip BEFORE the converter was replaced ?
TCI specs state "up to 4000rpm stall" with the caveat "dependent upon motor combination"for that particular model. Could be the issue is elsewhere in the 'box ?


Hey Tig, this is Jim Smiths red challenger you know the one. He had a hughes 3500 in it before, going 11.5>6's@116>117+'s. 1.65>1.66 60's. Faults found in 727, rebuilt with all good parts and this converter, don't know the rpm prior but picked up .5>6 10ths and 4mph and now doing 1.56 60's. He prob would've picked up some with just the box being rebuilt as rear clutches were toast, how much the verter is helping I don't know but as said near 6800rpm@the stripe is not conducive with 3.91/28" tyre combo and 555fwhp in 3800lbs.

60 Foot E.T. : 1.54 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.98 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 97.40 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.06 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121 MPH
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 5,689 RPM+20%=6826

http://etslips.co.uk/Ticket.php?ts=2022-06-04%2020:09:41


Jim ran 119 a couple of times last year and a few 11.4's I thought he was doing well then !! Slip seems excessive.......I'd be dropping the trans pan, looking at the fluid and looking for any excessive build up of clutch fibre in the bottom of the pan. If there is non or it's nominal it may be the converter ???


Its deff worth checking the fluid etc., Duncan built the box so it should all be ok but we'll see, he would've noticed something wrong with the shifts and said. Yes on checking he ran 5 11.4's last year best of 119 at the May event with 1.60 60 being his best and that may have been with an issue in the box as he said 1>2 shift seemed to stop and go to me but when that was I don't know.

I'll have to ask what rpm he was trapping at. Not enough information to make a good judgement on what the issue really is. Its always a lack of that that makes fault finding harder but in this case it is likely to be converter I think albeit its picked up well with it.

A 20% slipping converter is going to show +rpm in high gear/traps but mph would drop off would it not, anyway so from best to best he's picked up 4>4.5 10ths and 2mph (perhaps it should be 4mph?) with that converter and a good box rebuild+ increasing valve lift to somewhere in the .580"'s. To me 6800+rpm was never an issue with my 440, 7500 was though. 6700+ is to Jim I think so the 3500 may go back in but who wants to go slower. I hope not cos the car leaves more like a race car should now. Like most, a 10sec street car is the goal here, I think a proper race converter would do that easy without the excessive revs but that is 6 weeks out as he's found out already and we are in the middle of 3>4 meetings attended, it could be done though if ordered now, depends on how important he thinks it is.



Last edited by rb446; 06/10/22 06:35 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Is it a bad converter? [Re: rb446] #3049296
06/10/22 07:03 AM
06/10/22 07:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Originally Posted by rb446
Originally Posted by Tig
Originally Posted by rb446
Originally Posted by Tig
What was the trap mph, rpm and slip BEFORE the converter was replaced ?
TCI specs state "up to 4000rpm stall" with the caveat "dependent upon motor combination"for that particular model. Could be the issue is elsewhere in the 'box ?


Hey Tig, this is Jim Smiths red challenger you know the one. He had a hughes 3500 in it before, going 11.5>6's@116>117+'s. 1.65>1.66 60's. Faults found in 727, rebuilt with all good parts and this converter, don't know the rpm prior but picked up .5>6 10ths and 4mph and now doing 1.56 60's. He prob would've picked up some with just the box being rebuilt as rear clutches were toast, how much the verter is helping I don't know but as said near 6800rpm@the stripe is not conducive with 3.91/28" tyre combo and 555fwhp in 3800lbs.

60 Foot E.T. : 1.54 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.98 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 97.40 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.06 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121 MPH
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 5,689 RPM+20%=6826

http://etslips.co.uk/Ticket.php?ts=2022-06-04%2020:09:41


Jim ran 119 a couple of times last year and a few 11.4's I thought he was doing well then !! Slip seems excessive.......I'd be dropping the trans pan, looking at the fluid and looking for any excessive build up of clutch fibre in the bottom of the pan. If there is non or it's nominal it may be the converter ???


Its deff worth checking the fluid etc., Duncan built the box so it should all be ok but we'll see, he would've noticed something wrong with the shifts and said. Yes on checking he ran 5 11.4's last year best of 119 at the May event with 1.60 60 being his best and that may have been with an issue in the box as he said 1>2 shift seemed to stop and go to me but when that was I don't know.

I'll have to ask what rpm he was trapping at. Not enough information to make a good judgement on what the issue really is. Its always a lack of that that makes fault finding harder but in this case it is likely to be converter I think albeit its picked up well with it.

A 20% slipping converter is going to show +rpm in high gear/traps but mph would drop off would it not, anyway so from best to best he's picked up 4>4.5 10ths and 2mph (perhaps it should be 4mph?) with that converter and a good box rebuild+ increasing valve lift to somewhere in the .580"'s. To me 6800+rpm was never an issue with my 440, 7500 was though. 6700+ is to Jim I think so the 3500 may go back in but who wants to go slower. I hope not cos the car leaves more like a race car should now. Like most, a 10sec street car is the goal here, I think a proper race converter would do that easy without the excessive revs but that is 6 weeks out as he's found out already and we are in the middle of 3>4 meetings attended, it could be done though if ordered now, depends on how important he thinks it is.



Has Jim ordered a new converter ? It would definitely be the way to go IMO. (JFI I've had good results with ATi). The air was exceptional and there was a fair tail wind at the last meeting so lots of PB's achieved that weekend. Because of that, he might not be that much slower with the old converter when conditions are normal and it will nail down if it's the converter or not.


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1