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Flaring stainless brake lines #3039527
05/03/22 10:03 PM
05/03/22 10:03 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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Does anybody have any tips for flaring stainless steel brake lines? I bought one of the k tool international vise mounted flaring tools(same as the summit, jersey, Eastwood and many others that are the same tool just rebranded) and it claims to make perfect flares everytime and seems to have alot of good reviews. However, every flare that I try to make either ends up as only a single flare or it splits the tubing at the end and the ends always seem to be oblong.. I've tried heating it up , putting plenty of grease on the line and nothing is working. I've read the instructions multiple times and watched probably half a dozen YouTube videos of people using the same tool. I've made about 10 flares so far and only one came out right. I'm not sure at this point if it's a faulty tool, because it's stainless steel or If I'm missing something.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3039532
05/03/22 10:36 PM
05/03/22 10:36 PM
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Ohio
shinysidup Offline
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Hydraulic flaring tool is the best way to flare SS lines.
The dies are instrumental in keeping the line from splitting.

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3039535
05/03/22 10:44 PM
05/03/22 10:44 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Single flare.




If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3039633
05/04/22 10:37 AM
05/04/22 10:37 AM
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TJP Offline
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Double flaring SS as your finding is a bit different. Five things I found go a long ways towards solving the issue.
1. You must use annealed tubing.
2. If your using a regular tubing cutter it will work harden the Stainless making it almost impossible to flare even with annealed tubing.
3. use a small chop saw like CHOP SAW LINKY to prevent # 2. NOTE: also available on AMZ
4. Make sure to lightly counter bore the tube after cutting
5. A high quality flaring tool is a must. Using the bar clamp type is a roll of the dice

MAKE SURE TO blow compressed air through the lines when done or before install. beer

Last edited by TJP; 05/04/22 10:40 AM.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3039685
05/04/22 01:57 PM
05/04/22 01:57 PM
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MoonshineMattK Offline
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I don't know how committed to stainless you are but this is an alternative. We use it in my auto shop for every brake line job. This line will bend by hand and flares perfectly every single time.

https://www.amazon.com/S-U-R-BREZ10...g=8Xy8g&pd_rd_i=B0027AL424&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Auto-Parts-PFT409-Fittings/dp/B0792KXDP9/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=sur%26r+flaring+tool&qid=1651686558&sprefix=sur%26r+flar%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-38028-Bender-Model-603/dp/B00A336KF8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1C7J1ABSXYQJ&keywords=ridgid+3%2F16&qid=1651686573&sprefix=ridgid+3%2F16%2Caps%2C582&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Akozon-Handheld-Straightener-Straightening-Straight/dp/B09NBHDB3V/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=tubing+straightener+3%2F16&qid=1651686696&sprefix=tubing+stra%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-3

The SUR&R tool, Ridgid bender and tube straightener are an investment but you will never ever regret them. Running lines becomes a joy.
If it's a one time job you could always sell them on ebay. There is just no comparison with how easy they make running line.

Edit: not sure why clicking wont open the links but copy and paste works.

Last edited by MoonshineMattK; 05/04/22 01:58 PM.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3041068
05/09/22 08:36 PM
05/09/22 08:36 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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I ended up getting the flares to come out nice. The trick was, as recommended , to heat the tubing up, and then quickly flare it. I just finished the rear axle and all of the flares ended up looking nice. Thanks for the help.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3041082
05/09/22 09:31 PM
05/09/22 09:31 PM
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by 73cuda340
I ended up getting the flares to come out nice. The trick was, as recommended , to heat the tubing up, and then quickly flare it. I just finished the rear axle and all of the flares ended up looking nice. Thanks for the help.


I would suggest to check on the effects of heating the stainless and its result. Just to make sure its not to brittle or soft. there are different grades of SS and I for one am not sure of the lasting effects of doing so on any of the grades. Might be OK, Might not shruggy wink :beer

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: TJP] #3041205
05/10/22 01:24 PM
05/10/22 01:24 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Now the end of the tube is either soft or hard and brittle and/or no longer corrosion resistant, depending on the alloy and how hot you made it.


https://www.facebook.com/jerry.bickelracecars/videos/2221596741490732/


shruggy

Last edited by CMcAllister; 05/10/22 01:32 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: TJP] #3041494
05/11/22 01:21 PM
05/11/22 01:21 PM
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robertop Offline
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Heating stainless steel does not make it harder! SS does not behave like plane steel, apart from the fact that steel cannot be hardened by heating, just softened. Steel can be hardened by deformation or by heating AND quenching it properly. Finally, you cannot change the chemical makeup of steel or SS enough to change corrosion properties without going to very specific processes, let alone with a garage torch. This in the context of this forum,

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: robertop] #3041581
05/11/22 05:33 PM
05/11/22 05:33 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by robertop
Heating stainless steel does not make it harder! SS does not behave like plane steel, apart from the fact that steel cannot be hardened by heating, just softened. Steel can be hardened by deformation or by heating AND quenching it properly. Finally, you cannot change the chemical makeup of steel or SS enough to change corrosion properties without going to very specific processes, let alone with a garage torch. This in the context of this forum,


I don't know the alloy of the tubing and I don't know what was used to heat it or how hot it got. It can happen. Google "intergranular corrosion" and "carbide precipitation"

Any tutorial on stainless brake lines stress using a cutter that does not make the end of the tube hot.

Regardless, the answer to the question of flaring is above in several places from folks who are at the top of the game.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: CMcAllister] #3044028
05/20/22 10:10 PM
05/20/22 10:10 PM
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Don’t go there! The processes you mention are the product of long heating times and/or of inferior products (Chinese steel) or bad manufacturing techniques. There is no connection with a temporary heat from cutting or using a portable torch just to soften the tube.

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: robertop] #3044036
05/20/22 10:53 PM
05/20/22 10:53 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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The correct material is already annealed.

I don't care how you do it. It's not mine. shruggy

Guys ask questions, they get the correct answer and then want to argue. When half a dozen fabricators at the top of the list all agree on something, I'm probably going consider that to be sound advice.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: CMcAllister] #3044095
05/21/22 10:52 AM
05/21/22 10:52 AM
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
The correct material is already annealed.

I don't care how you do it. It's not mine. shruggy

Guys ask questions, they get the correct answer and then want to argue. When half a dozen fabricators at the top of the list all agree on something, I'm probably going consider that to be sound advice.


iagree
And will say it is frustrating to waste time trying to help and then watch as an easier/cheaper/likely incorrect solution is suggested and followed shruggy realcrazy confused twocents beer

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: 73cuda340] #3044118
05/21/22 12:40 PM
05/21/22 12:40 PM
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DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted by 73cuda340
Does anybody have any tips for flaring stainless steel brake lines? I bought one of the k tool international vise mounted flaring tools(same as the summit, jersey, Eastwood and many others that are the same tool just rebranded) and it claims to make perfect flares everytime and seems to have alot of good reviews. However, every flare that I try to make either ends up as only a single flare or it splits the tubing at the end and the ends always seem to be oblong.. I've tried heating it up , putting plenty of grease on the line and nothing is working. I've read the instructions multiple times and watched probably half a dozen YouTube videos of people using the same tool. I've made about 10 flares so far and only one came out right. I'm not sure at this point if it's a faulty tool, because it's stainless steel or If I'm missing something.






Wow....lots of uhh... "input" in this thread.... smile I do nothing but stainless steel brake, fuel and emission lines on my toys, customers cars , have done for decades, ......cheap steel lines are for the daily beaters....I have a KD double flare tool that I've used for decades, basic set using the small pin dies to create the double flare, I use a standard mini pipe cutter (Rigid) no heating or other voodoo to the cut ends other than using the deburring tool on the tubing cutter to deburr the inside of the freshly cut tube end, you need to learn just how much you need to insert in the tool (clamping jaws) to have just enough to create the double flare, takes some trial and error regardless of the tube alloy used, when I use the pin die to create the double flare, I just use white lithium grease to lube the line end/die....generally anything 1/4 inch up is fool proof in forming, however 3/16 brake line is a biotch to double flare, I generally have no problem flaring 3/16 diameter brake line with the KD flare kit, just that the 3/16 pin dies are only good for about a half dozen flares before the pin breaks off the die, so I generally bulk up on 3/16 pin dies when doing a vehicle..... just practice with some various techniques to see what works with your tool, if your not having success, perhaps it's the tool your using?

MikeG

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: TJP] #3044122
05/21/22 12:47 PM
05/21/22 12:47 PM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Heating and annealing is done to form this stuff in other situations. But if you need to heat a piece of annealed, 3/16", .028 to put a single flare on it, you might need a better flare tool. Double flares are not needed and could be problematic if you don't get them done properly.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: CMcAllister] #3044150
05/21/22 03:41 PM
05/21/22 03:41 PM
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DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Heating and annealing is done to form this stuff in other situations. But if you need to heat a piece of annealed, 3/16", .028 to put a single flare on it, you might need a better flare tool. Double flares are not needed and could be problematic if you don't get them done properly.






Never had much luck getting a single flare 3/16 SS brakeline to seal properly, same with a 5/16 or 3/8 SS fuel single flare....I've tried it in the past with various flaring tools.....double always seem the way to go



MikeG

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: DAYCLONA] #3044200
05/21/22 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DAYCLONA
, however 3/16 brake line is a biotch to double flare, I generally have no problem flaring 3/16 diameter brake line with the KD flare kit, just that the 3/16 pin dies are only good for about a half dozen flares before the pin breaks off the die, so I generally bulk up on 3/16 pin dies when doing a vehicle..... just practice with some various techniques to see what works with your tool, if your not having success, perhaps it's the tool your using?

MikeG


When the "pin" is pinched by the flaring process it's usually caused by either not deburring the ID enough or too much tube above the clamping die/bar. On smaller tubing which can be troublesome to deburr, I sometimes will check the ID with a number drill to verify the deburring has removed all of the lip formed while cutting. I also use countersinks for deburring and have rarely broken a die even on stainless wink beer

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: CMcAllister] #3044264
05/22/22 11:11 AM
05/22/22 11:11 AM
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SO: double flare on steel. single on stainless.
Hot-Cold-? Really matter?
Can't imagine ANY tube cutter heating it up to really matter.
With SS it's really important that the "cone" of the flare is uniform/smooth.
That's what influences how well it seals.
Unless it's for NASA, then better read all that high-tech metallurgical info.

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: PhillyRag] #3044297
05/22/22 12:42 PM
05/22/22 12:42 PM
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Here's a bit of info, mre on google under curring and flaring SS tubing

LINKY TO SOME INFO

Re: Flaring stainless brake lines [Re: PhillyRag] #3044301
05/22/22 12:53 PM
05/22/22 12:53 PM
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cutting any material using any method WILL work harden the cut to some extent. it just depends on the method used to cut whatever material and the tool used to do said cut.
dull cutting tools will work harden the material more than sharp cutting tools.
it's just the nature of the process. some materials will show this way more than others on secondary operations.
aluminum, stainless, brass, mild steel, or other material, if one works with enough materials over time, you will eventually come to see this in real time.
just my observations as a machinist for a 45 year career before retirement, and still practicing today.
your mileage will vary.
beer

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