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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040230
05/06/22 09:04 AM
05/06/22 09:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
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One small thing that will really wake it up is recurving the stock distributor.
Cleaning and lubing the internal weights in a stock electronic distributor and installing some Mr. Gasket #925B springs will make a world of difference.
The Moroso underdrive pulley on the crank helps a little, too, and is a bolt on swap. You can find them at swap meets pretty cheap. IIRC, one of the guys here showed an 8 hp gain from one.
Last edited by GY3; 05/06/22 09:11 AM.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040310
05/06/22 12:33 PM
05/06/22 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
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I know they arent the best. But do i need more at the moment? Im not getting them rebuilt, just some new sprinfs and a valve job. I can always slap aluminum ones on in a year or 2 if i get tired of this setup. Dont wanna go to crazy either on a daily driver. And pump gas is a must for now, for 2 reasons. 1: Trudeaus awesome gas prices make it inefficient to run 91 octane on a daily driver, and the 440s gas mileage will already suck 2: we happen to have a gas tank here on the farm at home for the company trucks and thats obviously 87. Ya know, "ive never considered myself a thief, but the old man wouldnt miss just one little liter"😆😆😆
And for pistons, i wanna do the bottom end right in one shot, i can always screw with the top end later if i feel i need more. But not the bottom end. You're not getting them rebuilt but you are getting a valve job ???? How is that not rebuilding them ? Alum heads will help you run on 87 pump gas with your target compression AND be a performance increase.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: JohnRR]
#3040326
05/06/22 01:10 PM
05/06/22 01:10 PM
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 10
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
General Lee
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 10
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
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I know they arent the best. But do i need more at the moment? Im not getting them rebuilt, just some new sprinfs and a valve job. I can always slap aluminum ones on in a year or 2 if i get tired of this setup. Dont wanna go to crazy either on a daily driver. And pump gas is a must for now, for 2 reasons. 1: Trudeaus awesome gas prices make it inefficient to run 91 octane on a daily driver, and the 440s gas mileage will already suck 2: we happen to have a gas tank here on the farm at home for the company trucks and thats obviously 87. Ya know, "ive never considered myself a thief, but the old man wouldnt miss just one little liter"😆😆😆
And for pistons, i wanna do the bottom end right in one shot, i can always screw with the top end later if i feel i need more. But not the bottom end. You're not getting them rebuilt but you are getting a valve job ???? How is that not rebuilding them ? Alum heads will help you run on 87 pump gas with your target compression AND be a performance increase. Well i dont mean porting and the like. Theyre probably fine. If they dont leak ill use them. Might have to lap a valve or 2. I dont know. Will check with kerosene soon and go from there.
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3040328
05/06/22 01:12 PM
05/06/22 01:12 PM
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 10
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
General Lee
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 10
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
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Stock rods are pressed pin, that limits your forged choices, 2355f speed -pro Thanks. Will they require bigger valve reliefs machined in and will i have to balance the bottom end for those?
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040341
05/06/22 01:33 PM
05/06/22 01:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,061
Atlanta, GA
mgoblue9798
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,061
Atlanta, GA
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I know they arent the best. But do i need more at the moment? Im not getting them rebuilt, just some new sprinfs and a valve job. I can always slap aluminum ones on in a year or 2 if i get tired of this setup. Dont wanna go to crazy either on a daily driver. And pump gas is a must for now, for 2 reasons. 1: Trudeaus awesome gas prices make it inefficient to run 91 octane on a daily driver, and the 440s gas mileage will already suck 2: we happen to have a gas tank here on the farm at home for the company trucks and thats obviously 87. Ya know, "ive never considered myself a thief, but the old man wouldnt miss just one little liter"😆😆😆
And for pistons, i wanna do the bottom end right in one shot, i can always screw with the top end later if i feel i need more. But not the bottom end. Based on the new info that you need an overbore and pistons, a set of KB flat tops or TRW six pack pistons would be the budget choice. If you are planning to upgrade to aluminum heads get the block decked to zero deck the pistons. If you pick the KB's make damn sure to open the ring gap in case you decide to tow with the truck. I am opening mine to what is recommended for a nitrous application just to be as safe as possible. I would still get with Mike Jones, Hughes, or one of the other custom cam grinders to get a modern tech cam for your application.
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040392
05/06/22 04:46 PM
05/06/22 04:46 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
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no pocket mods, and ....no balance, they are typically made heaver than needed for that reason.Will it be perfect no but designed that way. Balancing would be recommended for obvious reasons, if desired.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 05/06/22 04:47 PM.
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: Sniper]
#3040449
05/06/22 09:35 PM
05/06/22 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
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What shape is the short block now? I agree it may not be the best bang for the buck to change pistons.
No way I’d run under a 750 carb on a 440. I won’t run less than that on a 383 either. Run a small carb back to back on either engine and then tell me which one you’d use. Once you feel the power you won’t run a small carb again.
A performer rpm is the best intake I’ve found for a street effort and it did great on smogger low comp 440s I had.
I agree the factory 375 hp cam is likely on target or is at least the outer limit on a truck build. The OP says he wants low end power and torque. You drag racers need to keep that in mind. Soon as you bring up a 509 cam you've far exceeded what the OP wanted. When I swapped a 360 into my M body I ran it with a 650 carb and a 750 carb. The 650 got better mileage, low end and throttle response with less top end speed, maybe 110 mph max. The 750 had better top end speed, with worse mileage and low end. Since I don't need to go past the 125 mph mark on my speedo in a street car guess which carb was the right choice? Not sure what a 509 cam and your 360 has to do with this? A 750 on a 383 or 440 will pick up power all over the place, including low end. Exactly why I run no less. I had a 383 that was a mileage master with a tiny carb. It also made no power. Fine in a convertible. Looking back that little carb was likely the culprit to the no power, although it helped the mpg I’m sure.
I want my fair share
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040452
05/06/22 09:39 PM
05/06/22 09:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
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I know they arent the best. But do i need more at the moment? Im not getting them rebuilt, just some new sprinfs and a valve job. I can always slap aluminum ones on in a year or 2 if i get tired of this setup. Dont wanna go to crazy either on a daily driver. And pump gas is a must for now, for 2 reasons. 1: Trudeaus awesome gas prices make it inefficient to run 91 octane on a daily driver, and the 440s gas mileage will already suck 2: we happen to have a gas tank here on the farm at home for the company trucks and thats obviously 87. Ya know, "ive never considered myself a thief, but the old man wouldnt miss just one little liter"😆😆😆
And for pistons, i wanna do the bottom end right in one shot, i can always screw with the top end later if i feel i need more. But not the bottom end. The issue is the pump gas iron head build won’t be all that great if you go with aluminum heads later. Plus the cost of redoing the 452s is a long way to E street edelbrocks or the china ones that are cheaper still.
I want my fair share
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: General Lee]
#3040527
05/07/22 10:40 AM
05/07/22 10:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,061
Atlanta, GA
mgoblue9798
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,061
Atlanta, GA
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If you have a good thermoquad there isn't a better carb for a street driven car or truck. Best fuel mileage of any carb when properly set up.
Get your heads CC'd after any decking and valve job. Find out how far below deck your pistons are after install. You will then have the info needed to pick a cam somewhere in the 200 to 220 @.050 range for your application.
Last edited by mgoblue9798; 05/07/22 11:02 AM.
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3040636
05/07/22 05:50 PM
05/07/22 05:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,499
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,499
God's Country Maryland
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This would not be the place for the 509. A cam with 228 @ .050 or less in this build. The 509 is 241*. You better be 10 to 1 or so. I wasn't recommending the .509 cam I was just relaying what they used in their dyno test, but you have to respect that it gave it 50 more horses. That's a pretty respectable increase for a low compression engine, remember that cam was installed before they added the closed chamber 516 heads.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#3040682
05/07/22 09:54 PM
05/07/22 09:54 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
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This would not be the place for the 509. A cam with 228 @ .050 or less in this build. The 509 is 241*. You better be 10 to 1 or so. I wasn't recommending the .509 cam I was just relaying what they used in their dyno test, but you have to respect that it gave it 50 more horses. That's a pretty respectable increase for a low compression engine, remember that cam was installed before they added the closed chamber 516 heads. Yeah, I didn't think you were, just in the attachment. The idea just seemed to be catching wind.....
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Re: Building a smogger 440
[Re: Sniper]
#3040717
05/08/22 08:42 AM
05/08/22 08:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 695
Southern Alberta
Uberpube
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 695
Southern Alberta
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it would pull vacuum at wot throttle with the edelbrock. At what RPM? Above 4k is when it really started to show, I bought the 750 off of a guy that said it wasn't enough for a 383 Chev which I doubted but it doesn't seem like it's really enough for a 440 with a dual plane. I played with it on the rollers for a few hours and tuned it in, but it was always down from the thermoquad.
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