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Building a smogger 440 #3040017
05/05/22 05:18 PM
05/05/22 05:18 PM
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 7
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
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General Lee Offline OP
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General Lee  Offline OP
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Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Hey y'all

This is my first post. Have snooped around here just reading around, seems like a good place for my stupid questions lol. So im building a motor. Ill throw all the info i can think of in here first. I was thinking of a 9+ compression motor. Its a 77 440-8 block, will be bored 30 over.
Its for in a 1991 d150 longbox. 3.55 suregrip. 727 auto. It has to run on pump gas, and be a very fun truck. No drag truck, will see the strip a few times a year just for the fun of it. Looking for low end power and torque mostly. So ive done a lot of thinking and research,and here what im thinking.
Summit 6400 cam
Holley 750 carb
Stock cast crank and rods
Stock 452 heads (hardened seats for pump gas)
Double roller timing chain
Melling oil pump
Stock torque converter
Fully rebuilt 9.25, 3.55s solid spacer
Eddy performer intake (or my stock one but you guys will probably change my mind on that)
Cant think of anything else right now.
So my question, what pistons do i get with that and will the setup im thinking work together nicely for a fun fast daily (not really daily bu you get the point) driver.
Thanks a ton, and please dont confuse me with 100 thousand different ideas lol but thanks for all input in advance

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040021
05/05/22 05:35 PM
05/05/22 05:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 11,485
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
Hypereutectic pistons are a good choice for cost and durability. I would suggest a decent brand like speed pro but others will have good advice.

I am not sure you are going to get a 9+ compression to run on regular. Around here the regular gas is pretty crappy. Mid grade possibly. Premium yes.

A 440 is a torque monster but the internals are slow to accelerate. Take advantage of that, a Lower rear gear and an overdrive will let it rev faster and still end up the same cruising RPM.

My twocents

Others will have good advice too.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040052
05/05/22 06:54 PM
05/05/22 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,269
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
The Eddy RPM intake is a very good one, up
Way better than the stock cast iron AVS or Thermoguad intakes are twocents
What is the list number on your carb?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040070
05/05/22 07:50 PM
05/05/22 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 870
Atlanta, GA
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mgoblue9798 Offline
super stock
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Atlanta, GA
My two cents.

One, does your engine need an overbore? If not then just run the low comp pistons you have. It is tough to run a 9 to 1 440 with open chamber heads and no quench on anything but 93 or higher octane.


With the summit cam you chose, I would just run the stock intake. No reason to spend money on a performer or perf rpm with your combo in a truck that likely will not see north of 5500 rpm.

Now about that cam. If you follow the above and are not spending a bunch on pistons, overbore, and intake, spend a little extra and get a modern cam designed specifically for your combo. It will cost a little more, but will make the biggest bang for the buck. Mike Jones would be a good guy to talk to about the cam selection.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: mgoblue9798] #3040078
05/05/22 07:58 PM
05/05/22 07:58 PM
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Sniper Offline
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I would add that a 750 carb, for what you say yo want, is probably too much carb.

It is my opinion that when you are building a street car and you are deciding between two cams, or two carbs, pick the milder of the two.

As for your cam choice, it is real hard to beat the factory cam for what you want. By factory I don't mean the smogger cam, but the muscle car era 375 hp cam. Make sure to degree it too.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040086
05/05/22 08:33 PM
05/05/22 08:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,412
oklahoma
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forphorty Offline
pro stock
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oklahoma
How much does a 91 d150 longbox weigh?

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040101
05/05/22 09:15 PM
05/05/22 09:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 572
Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
mopar
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Posts: 572
Southern Alberta
Sounds just like my first 440. Don't bother with anything less than the l2355 piston. I bought the l2266f and they were way down in the hole like stockers I ended up decking the block square then milling .050 off the 452 heads with steel shim gasket. I have had the 6400 and 6401 cam in that engine, it's a dog with the 6401 down low, but picks up later. I run the motor on 87 octane all the time, I just couldn't go too crazy with advance curve, it likes the middle weight springs and I took the plugs colder because it use to run on with the key off.
With the amount of head choices out there now, I don't think I would ever bother with stock heads ever again unless you're super tight on budget. I regret all the time and money I spent on my 452's.
The engine made the most power with a big thermoquad on it and lost power when I switched to a 750 edelbrock, it would pull vacuum at wot throttle with the edelbrock.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Uberpube] #3040102
05/05/22 09:20 PM
05/05/22 09:20 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,116
nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by Uberpube

it would pull vacuum at wot throttle with the edelbrock.


At what RPM?

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Sniper] #3040121
05/05/22 10:07 PM
05/05/22 10:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,342
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
top fuel
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God's Country Maryland
I can't remember who did this dyno test but they got 449 horsepower out of a smogger engine without replacing pistons. Here's how they did it.

0566AD90-397A-4DE0-95BF-8441C8D30137.jpeg

I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #3040127
05/05/22 10:20 PM
05/05/22 10:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 772
Washougal,Wa
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Dodge Offline
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Washougal,Wa
What about Summit 6401 cam and rpm intake?


Stand behind your word
Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Dodge] #3040179
05/06/22 04:10 AM
05/06/22 04:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,373
Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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What shape is the short block now? I agree it may not be the best bang for the buck to change pistons.

No way I’d run under a 750 carb on a 440. I won’t run less than that on a 383 either. Run a small carb back to back on either engine and then tell me which one you’d use. Once you feel the power you won’t run a small carb again.

A performer rpm is the best intake I’ve found for a street effort and it did great on smogger low comp 440s I had.

I agree the factory 375 hp cam is likely on target or is at least the outer limit on a truck build.


I want my fair share
Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3040190
05/06/22 07:21 AM
05/06/22 07:21 AM
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Posts: 4,116
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
What shape is the short block now? I agree it may not be the best bang for the buck to change pistons.

No way I’d run under a 750 carb on a 440. I won’t run less than that on a 383 either. Run a small carb back to back on either engine and then tell me which one you’d use. Once you feel the power you won’t run a small carb again.

A performer rpm is the best intake I’ve found for a street effort and it did great on smogger low comp 440s I had.

I agree the factory 375 hp cam is likely on target or is at least the outer limit on a truck build.


The OP says he wants low end power and torque.

You drag racers need to keep that in mind. Soon as you bring up a 509 cam you've far exceeded what the OP wanted.

When I swapped a 360 into my M body I ran it with a 650 carb and a 750 carb. The 650 got better mileage, low end and throttle response with less top end speed, maybe 110 mph max. The 750 had better top end speed, with worse mileage and low end. Since I don't need to go past the 125 mph mark on my speedo in a street car guess which carb was the right choice?

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Sniper] #3040193
05/06/22 07:39 AM
05/06/22 07:39 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,501
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
pro stock
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Apollo, PA.
s1263 silvolite

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3040194
05/06/22 07:43 AM
05/06/22 07:43 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,501
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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build plan is perfect.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Sniper] #3040195
05/06/22 07:46 AM
05/06/22 07:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,459
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by SomeCarGuy
What shape is the short block now? I agree it may not be the best bang for the buck to change pistons.

No way I’d run under a 750 carb on a 440. I won’t run less than that on a 383 either. Run a small carb back to back on either engine and then tell me which one you’d use. Once you feel the power you won’t run a small carb again.

A performer rpm is the best intake I’ve found for a street effort and it did great on smogger low comp 440s I had.

I agree the factory 375 hp cam is likely on target or is at least the outer limit on a truck build.


The OP says he wants low end power and torque.

You drag racers need to keep that in mind. Soon as you bring up a 509 cam you've far exceeded what the OP wanted.

When I swapped a 360 into my M body I ran it with a 650 carb and a 750 carb. The 650 got better mileage, low end and throttle response with less top end speed, maybe 110 mph max. The 750 had better top end speed, with worse mileage and low end. Since I don't need to go past the 125 mph mark on my speedo in a street car guess which carb was the right choice?


A Holley 750 VS is a great choice for what the OP is targeting. Who brought up the 509 cam? I didn’t see that???

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #3040200
05/06/22 08:04 AM
05/06/22 08:04 AM
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nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda



A Holley 750 VS is a great choice for what the OP is targeting. Who brought up the 509 cam? I didn’t see that???


Six posts above you by GodsCountry340

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #3040202
05/06/22 08:07 AM
05/06/22 08:07 AM
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Posts: 3,699
usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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i've run kb184 pistons with the 6401 cam before. off idle and mid-range torque was very good. i had a stock iron intake which i think hurt the top end. you won't have that problem with the edelbrock intake.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040211
05/06/22 08:19 AM
05/06/22 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 7
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
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General Lee Offline OP
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General Lee  Offline OP
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Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Hey everyone, thanks for all the help in such a short time. All my borew are perfect, not even a ridge to catch your fingernail behind, but only one has pitting. And 2 of my stock pistons are junk so i figured rebore and nice new high comp forged pistons. Im not really on a tigh budget but not going with aluminum heads right now. Can always do different heads later. Can probably get my hands on 915 or 516s, but 452 seem to do the job for many people and thats what i got now. Havent bought the 750 holley yet, but there is one for sale near me brandnew with 12 kms on it. Was overkill for his chevy 383. And cheap.

Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: General Lee] #3040212
05/06/22 08:28 AM
05/06/22 08:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 73,842
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted by General Lee
Hey everyone, thanks for all the help in such a short time. All my borew are perfect, not even a ridge to catch your fingernail behind, but only one has pitting. And 2 of my stock pistons are junk so i figured rebore and nice new high comp forged pistons. Im not really on a tigh budget but not going with aluminum heads right now. Can always do different heads later. Can probably get my hands on 915 or 516s, but 452 seem to do the job for many people and thats what i got now. Havent bought the 750 holley yet, but there is one for sale near me brandnew with 12 kms on it. Was overkill for his chevy 383. And cheap.


By the time you have the 452's rebuilt you are most of the way to a budget set of alum heads. Stock big block mopar heads suck plain and simple. They don't flow very well, even ported and the chambers are huge on the open chamber heads. Since you aren't budget limited , to a degree, if you insist on a forged piston get something lightweight ... like a Diamond or Ross, you might be able to internal balance it which would be a plus.


running up my post count some more .
Re: Building a smogger 440 [Re: JohnRR] #3040228
05/06/22 08:59 AM
05/06/22 08:59 AM
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 7
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
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General Lee Offline OP
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Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
I know they arent the best. But do i need more at the moment? Im not getting them rebuilt, just some new sprinfs and a valve job. I can always slap aluminum ones on in a year or 2 if i get tired of this setup. Dont wanna go to crazy either on a daily driver. And pump gas is a must for now, for 2 reasons. 1: Trudeaus awesome gas prices make it inefficient to run 91 octane on a daily driver, and the 440s gas mileage will already suck 2: we happen to have a gas tank here on the farm at home for the company trucks and thats obviously 87. Ya know, "ive never considered myself a thief, but the old man wouldnt miss just one little liter"😆😆😆
And for pistons, i wanna do the bottom end right in one shot, i can always screw with the top end later if i feel i need more. But not the bottom end.

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