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Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: 5thAve] #3038965
05/02/22 12:25 AM
05/02/22 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 5thAve
60 to 65 is no big deal. They usually upped the wire size when it was a fleet car with an HD alternator.


Don't they all just regulate to 12v - 14v +/- a volt or two? Is there a heavy duty wiring harness, never heard of this???

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: A12] #3039068
05/02/22 12:34 PM
05/02/22 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by 5thAve
60 to 65 is no big deal. They usually upped the wire size when it was a fleet car with an HD alternator.


Don't they all just regulate to 12v - 14v +/- a volt or two? Is there a heavy duty wiring harness, never heard of this???


There definitely is a heavy duty wire harness, but I don't think it shows up until you get into the high amp alternators. Higher amps require larger gauge wires. The + battery wire is thicker gauge, and many have a ground for the alternator built in.
As more electrical accessories that were added to the vehicle, higher charging system amperage was needed to keep the battery charged. Things like power seats, power windows, Ac, radios with power boosters, and additional lighting all added to the battery current draw, the charging systems had to be stepped up to carry the extra load. More electrical accessories added up pretty fast in the late 60s and early 70s, then when the on board computers of the mid to late 70s showed up, charging systems went crazy. 90 to 120 Amp charging systems was not uncommon. The old wiring harness could never have handled the power flow.

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: poorboy] #3039113
05/02/22 03:01 PM
05/02/22 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by 5thAve
60 to 65 is no big deal. They usually upped the wire size when it was a fleet car with an HD alternator.


Don't they all just regulate to 12v - 14v +/- a volt or two? Is there a heavy duty wiring harness, never heard of this???


There definitely is a heavy duty wire harness, but I don't think it shows up until you get into the high amp alternators. Higher amps require larger gauge wires. The + battery wire is thicker gauge, and many have a ground for the alternator built in.
As more electrical accessories that were added to the vehicle, higher charging system amperage was needed to keep the battery charged. Things like power seats, power windows, Ac, radios with power boosters, and additional lighting all added to the battery current draw, the charging systems had to be stepped up to carry the extra load. More electrical accessories added up pretty fast in the late 60s and early 70s, then when the on board computers of the mid to late 70s showed up, charging systems went crazy. 90 to 120 Amp charging systems was not uncommon. The old wiring harness could never have handled the power flow.


Wiring is stablished by the load requested by the system or device, not by the source.

At you home you plug your cell phone charger on the same outlet than your iron. Source is the same outlet on wall, but iron get a thick wire, while cell phone is barelly some hair thick copper strands.

Your starter motor gets a 2 or 4 gauge wire, while the other wire is 10 or 12 gauge. Both on same battery ( 450, 500, 700 amps battery )


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: NachoRT74] #3039236
05/03/22 12:47 AM
05/03/22 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NachoRT74
Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by 5thAve
60 to 65 is no big deal. They usually upped the wire size when it was a fleet car with an HD alternator.


Don't they all just regulate to 12v - 14v +/- a volt or two? Is there a heavy duty wiring harness, never heard of this???


There definitely is a heavy duty wire harness, but I don't think it shows up until you get into the high amp alternators. Higher amps require larger gauge wires. The + battery wire is thicker gauge, and many have a ground for the alternator built in.
As more electrical accessories that were added to the vehicle, higher charging system amperage was needed to keep the battery charged. Things like power seats, power windows, Ac, radios with power boosters, and additional lighting all added to the battery current draw, the charging systems had to be stepped up to carry the extra load. More electrical accessories added up pretty fast in the late 60s and early 70s, then when the on board computers of the mid to late 70s showed up, charging systems went crazy. 90 to 120 Amp charging systems was not uncommon. The old wiring harness could never have handled the power flow.


Wiring is stablished by the load requested by the system or device, not by the source.

At you home you plug your cell phone charger on the same outlet than your iron. Source is the same outlet on wall, but iron get a thick wire, while cell phone is barelly some hair thick copper strands.

Your starter motor gets a 2 or 4 gauge wire, while the other wire is 10 or 12 gauge. Both on same battery ( 450, 500, 700 amps battery )


For that example the wiring on the device might be established by the device but the wiring to the plug is established by the system. If it's a 15A outlet you are using it doesn't matter if you're plugging in an iron or a cellphone the wiring to the outlet still needs to be sized for 15A.

The positive wire for a 120 amp alternator is bigger then a 60A one because there is a potential of having more load on it.

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: 5thAve] #3039241
05/03/22 02:02 AM
05/03/22 02:02 AM
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I minimized the example up to the last section. But think the outlet it comes from another network which also stablishes the load designed to hold along its own system and its own breaker. We can get up to the dam, or nuclear plant producing the energy. No need for that to ilustrate the point.

Of course in all the system there is a relationship between source and the device, but all in all the final destiny or device is what defines the need for the correct wire to be used. But even having a 500 amps alt, if your car will demand just for 70 amps tops you won't need EVER a 2:0 gauge wire, still having that 500 amps al because the system will never request that load.

Thinking on the breaker to protect the AC outlets... is conected maybe to a 120 amps system at home, but still the wall wiring would be maybe 14 gauge.

The home network is kinda "unpredictable" since will change day after day, at every sourcing point, but on our cars the load is more predictable since won't change its splitting/sourcing points like at home. The bigger sucking device will change the load needs is the battery capacity as far gets discharged and when is requesting its charge back.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: NachoRT74] #3039261
05/03/22 08:14 AM
05/03/22 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by NachoRT74

but still the wall wiring would be maybe 14 gauge.


This is correct. The circuit breaker required is determined by the smallest branch wire. When a branch has a 14 gage wire anywhere, it is supposed to have a 15 amp breaker. When a branch has only 12 gage wire, a 20 amp breaker may be used. Wall outlets generally get 12 gage wiring and 20 amp breakers. Outlets along kitchen counters and other locations must have at least two circuits because often many devices are used in kitchens these days.

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As far as alternator amp ratings go, the aftermarket rates them however they feel like.
When ordered on the car from Chrysler in the 60s and early 70s, the 65 amp alternators were different than the standard alternators.
Best I've been able to tell
The 60 amp was a Chrysler special order heavy duty alternator that had a matching heavy duty regulator to handle the higher field current. The car also got a revised wiring harness that split off the alternator output to the battery.
The 65 amp alternator was a Leece-Neville special order heavy duty alternator that had a matching Leece-Veville regulatort. The car also got a revised wiring harness that split off the alternator output to the battery, plus wiring for the Leece Neville connections.
There were some other less common alternators as well, including the "insulated field" alternators in 1969, and mentioned in the 1970 introductions to the isolated field alternators.

Another thing I've noticed is in the sales books the higher amp alternators must be sold with a larger battery.

Here's from the 1970 option special order Police package posted at Hamtramk Historical

[img]https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/upload_2021-5-19_8-37-49-png.1715739693/[/img]

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: Mattax] #3039262
05/03/22 08:28 AM
05/03/22 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattax

Another thing I've noticed is in the sales books the higher amp alternators must be sold with a larger battery.


Hey!!! long time without talk!!!

I have allways though the larger batt is more to hold the reserve time capacity matched with the car loads demand which usually is of course matched with the alt capacity, but is not a must when upgrading the alt on same specs car. In fact IMHO, a larger batt capacity increases the problem when gets more time to be recharged.

Ppl tipically upgrades the car electrical capacity installing a larger batt load capacity before the alt, when should be made just right the opposite. A larger capacity batt with small capacity alt adds more stress to the charging system.

Alt allways first!


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: NachoRT74] #3039268
05/03/22 08:38 AM
05/03/22 08:38 AM
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It may be that by requiring a larger battery, the recharge load will be reduced.
Guessing here.
But for example, Taxi driver parks by hopsital and turns off engine, but leaves two-way radio on.
After 5 minutes the battery capacity is reduced by 10 amp-hours.
This is a bigger fraction of a 65 amp-hour battery than a 100 amp hour battery. So maybe with a 100 amp hour battery, it won't demand as much amps for recharging when the engine is restarted. Better for the wiring and better for the battery.

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: Mattax] #3039271
05/03/22 08:42 AM
05/03/22 08:42 AM
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See if these attachements work.
Schematics of the wiring for the special order 60 and 65 amp alternators, pulled from the 1973 Chassis Manual diagrams.
Fusible links highlighted

1973-60-Charger-Cornet-color-links2.png1973-65Amp-Charger-Cornet-color3.png
Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: Mattax] #3039272
05/03/22 08:44 AM
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but recharge time increased on same recharge load? still being one a smaller fraction than the other,

dunno...


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: NachoRT74] #3039275
05/03/22 08:47 AM
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If I described the scenario correctly, yes, but at lower charge rate.
With the lower charge rate and bigger battery, the battery will stay cooler and charge more completely.

Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: Mattax] #3039277
05/03/22 08:50 AM
05/03/22 08:50 AM
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dunno, I feel more nervous with more time the amm out of the zero reading, either D or C still with an small ammount of load, LOL


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Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: NachoRT74] #3039329
05/03/22 11:53 AM
05/03/22 11:53 AM
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Look up your wire harness PN, the bare bones will have the smaller lead for the 41 amp, the harness for the 50 and the HD65 have the heavier lead.

Even some of the most well optioned power everything premium cars didnt use the HD65 unless another option triggered it.

More then not you have the 50 amp harness with this lead.

DSC09363.JPG

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Re: Is it ok to use a 65 amp Alternator in place of a 60 amp [Re: mopars4ever] #3039566
05/04/22 03:23 AM
05/04/22 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mopars4ever
I brought it up because I did have a issue a while back with melting the blue wire in my harness on my other car not long after I put on a chrome Tuff stuff alternator. Not sure if that was what caused it to melt or not. I think that was a 75 amp IIRC.


Just read this.

If the blue wire got melted is because the alt was a dual field unit set up for a single field with a grounded brush and you connected a dual field setup on it, with the bad luck you connected the blue wire ( ign signal ) to the grounded brush. If the green wire was connected there nothing was melted but a full voltage output was obtained.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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