Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: gregsdart]
#3036165
04/22/22 10:35 PM
04/22/22 10:35 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,478 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,478
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Down the road goals, I guess, I am not sure as I have a lot on my plate, and next year my world changes drastically as I relocate south. So 5.90 is just an incremental goal I have wanted to hit, but would love to win another points season championship.The car works well, so, if I keep finding ways to lighten it, or better parts for the engine, we might hit my goal this year. There is about 50lbs of weight I know if I work at it, I can remove. Maybe more intake porting....And we have brand new slicks...
I will build another 543 I think this fall as a backup....For the money, I think that is one of the best combo's a person can build....After that, I have to finish up my Cuda and then collect parts for the Barracuda and bu then, it will be time to move south.
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: AndyF]
#3036172
04/22/22 11:16 PM
04/22/22 11:16 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,071 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,071
Apollo, PA.
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My 470 made 750 hp with the TF270 head and pump gas compression but it was a really serious build. I had to test multiple cams before finding one that worked just right. That engine also had a Wilson ported intake, Jesel belt drive, external oil pump, etc. It was more expensive than a typical bracket race engine. I probably had about $20,000 in that engine. I think it could be duplicated for less but a person would need to make all the correct choices.
The easiest way to make more power is to add compression. The 10.7 compression is going to really box you in. You can make big power with that compression but you get forced into a narrow power range and a very specific camshaft. What did it run et wise ? just curious about these heads. I built a 12 to 1 511 rb with used SR's and a flat tappet cam for 4500$ its been 9.60's
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3036178
04/22/22 11:43 PM
04/22/22 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203
Oregon
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My 470 made 750 hp with the TF270 head and pump gas compression but it was a really serious build. I had to test multiple cams before finding one that worked just right. That engine also had a Wilson ported intake, Jesel belt drive, external oil pump, etc. It was more expensive than a typical bracket race engine. I probably had about $20,000 in that engine. I think it could be duplicated for less but a person would need to make all the correct choices.
The easiest way to make more power is to add compression. The 10.7 compression is going to really box you in. You can make big power with that compression but you get forced into a narrow power range and a very specific camshaft. What did it run et wise ? just curious about these heads. I built a 12 to 1 511 rb with used SR's and a flat tappet cam for 4500$ its been 9.60's That engine never went in a car. Sold the top end to one guy, the short block to someone else and the oil system got parted out to a bunch of different guys.
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: AndyF]
#3036182
04/23/22 12:15 AM
04/23/22 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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If I was building a wedge I would look up Andy F's builds and copy one. He knows how to milk a wedge.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: Dragula]
#3036187
04/23/22 01:05 AM
04/23/22 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Down the road goals, I guess, I am not sure as I have a lot on my plate, and next year my world changes drastically as I relocate south. So 5.90 is just an incremental goal I have wanted to hit, but would love to win another points season championship. So reliability is a must, to win a championship. Low maintenance, long life motor.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: AndyF]
#3036223
04/23/22 09:13 AM
04/23/22 09:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,765 Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,765
Hot Rod Ridge
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My 470 made 750 hp with the TF270 head and pump gas compression but it was a really serious build. I had to test multiple cams before finding one that worked just right. That engine also had a Wilson ported intake, Jesel belt drive, external oil pump, etc. It was more expensive than a typical bracket race engine. I probably had about $20,000 in that engine. I think it could be duplicated for less but a person would need to make all the correct choices.
The easiest way to make more power is to add compression. The 10.7 compression is going to really box you in. You can make big power with that compression but you get forced into a narrow power range and a very specific camshaft. What did it run et wise ? just curious about these heads. I built a 12 to 1 511 rb with used SR's and a flat tappet cam for 4500$ its been 9.60's That engine never went in a car. Sold the top end to one guy, the short block to someone else and the oil system got parted out to a bunch of different guys. Exactly. So you will never know how it ran. Dyno = bullsh!t if it don't run a number
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3036256
04/23/22 10:25 AM
04/23/22 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
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“In theory”, a 5.90 in the 1/8 is about a 9.25 in the 1/4.
At 2950lbs the Moroso slider shows 705hp, uncorrected....... as it sits on the starting line. So, figure you’ll need somewhere around 6-10% more STP corrected dyno HP to end up with that figure in typical upstate NY summer air.
775hp seems like a big ask for a bread and butter bracket race pump gas 511.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3036264
04/23/22 10:39 AM
04/23/22 10:39 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,478 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,478
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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“In theory”, a 5.90 in the 1/8 is about a 9.25 in the 1/4.
At 2950lbs the Moroso slider shows 705hp, uncorrected....... as it sits on the starting line. So, figure you’ll need somewhere around 6-10% more STP corrected dyno HP to end up with that figure in typical upstate NY summer air.
775hp seems like a big ask for a bread and butter bracket race pump gas 511. Yeah, typically this combo runs 6.20's......We have been 6.14 on pump gas with an almost identical combo....But as I mentioned, we have made a few small changes to it. That combo had a basic 295 head with 2.19 valves, and this will have a 325 with 2.25 valves, and this new cam is bigger too, and the free'r flowing headers this time, fresh slicks...and maybe 50lbs less weight....We are trying to hit it without sacrificing reliability. Last two seasons, we lashed the valves once, and we were good for the season. Good valve train = happy engine with good tuning. The other thing I can do, is go higher launch and shift rpm....
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: Dragula]
#3036273
04/23/22 11:10 AM
04/23/22 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Using the same factor that shows a 5.90 in the 1/8 as a 9.25 in the 1/4, shows a 6.14 in the 1/8 to be a 9.63 in the 1/4.
On the Moroso slider, a 9.25@2950lbs shows it would require 85hp more than a 9.63@3000lbs.
The Wallace 1/8 mile calculator shows 69hp more to go from 6.14@3000lbs to 5.90@2950.
Nonetheless, sounds like you have a plan...... which we’ll look forward to you sharing the results from.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3036275
04/23/22 11:10 AM
04/23/22 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203
Oregon
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“In theory”, a 5.90 in the 1/8 is about a 9.25 in the 1/4.
At 2950lbs the Moroso slider shows 705hp, uncorrected....... as it sits on the starting line. So, figure you’ll need somewhere around 6-10% more STP corrected dyno HP to end up with that figure in typical upstate NY summer air.
775hp seems like a big ask for a bread and butter bracket race pump gas 511. I agree, 775 isn't going to happen from a bracket race pump gas 511. Those typically make right at 700 on the dyno. Everything has to be just right to get the extra 10% which means you have to be willing to spend a bunch more money on parts and dyno time. Most guys just make a few pulls on the dyno to verify the build and then go racing.
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: rickseeman]
#3036283
04/23/22 12:04 PM
04/23/22 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I just caught rhe part about pumpgas. Seriously, you need cubes and airflow for that . What parts do you have to throw at a 4.5 bore aluminum block? Maybe $ 6600 to get one in hand (BME) , ready to assemble, and750 to 800 pumpgas hp will be a whole lot easier to do. The block should turn out to be a one time investment, and 100 pounds off the nose is huge . How much would it cost to replace two broken stockblocks? A lot more than just blocks and machine work.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: gregsdart]
#3036334
04/23/22 02:30 PM
04/23/22 02:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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I just caught rhe part about pumpgas. Seriously, you need cubes and airflow for that . What parts do you have to throw at a 4.5 bore aluminum block? Maybe $ 6600 to get one in hand (BME) , ready to assemble, and750 to 800 pumpgas hp will be a whole lot easier to do. The block should turn out to be a one time investment, and 100 pounds off the nose is huge . How much would it cost to replace two broken stockblocks? A lot more than just blocks and machine work. Mega Block 589 cubes 4.565 bore x 4.500, just 10:1cr, 5/64 ring pack pistons, tiny Herbert street s/roller, .625/.625" 260/270@.050, 572-13 365cnc heads, 440-2, old 950hp carb, =695 dyno hp@5500-5900, how hard to get another 100hp from that spec upping the CR etc.,and still keeping it pump..... it has gone 10.3@130 with a 727 with a street converter in a 3800lbs RR in full street trim on a 10x29" Hoosier tyre on a no wind day at Santa Pod. Take 850lbs out of the car and it would go> 60 Foot E.T. : 1.31 Seconds 1/8 Mile E.T. : 5.95 Seconds 1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 114.22 MPH 1/4 Mile E.T. : 9.43 Seconds 1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 142 MPH Just an example.
Last edited by rb446; 04/23/22 02:35 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: rb446]
#3036347
04/23/22 03:02 PM
04/23/22 03:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273
PA.
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You dyno and horsepower guys kill me. Lol. Get the damn thing to the race track and put in some work. My little 422 with a solid lifter cam has gone a best of 5.98 and a boat-load of low 6.00’s. Not at some coastal super track either. Off the shelf pistons, no vacuum pump, no special ring packs, and a bracket sized tire 4 inches bigger than needed. Sure it’s 2880 pounds but yours could be too.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#3036355
04/23/22 03:18 PM
04/23/22 03:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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You dyno and horsepower guys kill me. Lol. Get the damn thing to the race track and put in some work. My little 422 with a solid lifter cam has gone a best of 5.98 and a boat-load of low 6.00’s. Not at some coastal super track either. Off the shelf pistons, no vacuum pump, no special ring packs, and a bracket sized tire 4 inches bigger than needed. Sure it’s 2880 pounds but yours could be too.
it has gone 10.3@130 with a 727 with a street converter in a 3800lbs RR in full street trim on a 10x29" Hoosier tyre on a no wind day at Santa Pod. if that was aimed at me John?......I don't hold much on dyno's either but this time this one was on the money EDA is the company.
Last edited by rb446; 04/23/22 03:22 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: rb446]
#3036357
04/23/22 03:22 PM
04/23/22 03:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273
PA.
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You dyno and horsepower guys kill me. Lol. Get the damn thing to the race track and put in some work. My little 422 with a solid lifter cam has gone a best of 5.98 and a boat-load of low 6.00’s. Not at some coastal super track either. Off the shelf pistons, no vacuum pump, no special ring packs, and a bracket sized tire 4 inches bigger than needed. Sure it’s 2880 pounds but yours could be too.
it has gone 10.3@130 with a 727 with a street converter in a 3800lbs RR in full street trim on a 10x29" Hoosier tyre on a no wind day at Santa Pod. if that was aimed at me?......I don't hold much on dyno's either but this time this one was on the money EDA is the company. No it wasn’t aimed at you. Why did you think it was. Maybe I hit reply like most people do from the post above it.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Lets talk Heads.....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#3036358
04/23/22 03:22 PM
04/23/22 03:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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ok John, no worries what you do is cool man.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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