Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: poorboy]
#3027590
03/25/22 10:32 PM
03/25/22 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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to tell the truth, I'm surprised they used an inline 6 instead of a V6. I would think the V6 would have been a smaller overall package.
Not that it would matter much to me, I'm not going to buy a new vehicle with one in it, and I don't foresee me hanging around long enough to have one in my hot rod. https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/05/new-mercedes-benz-inline-six-engine-test-drive/There are many current benefits to the inline-six configuration — especially for the manufacturer. Back in the day when displacement ruled the world, V6 motors could be built off of the same, but shrunken, block as V8s. Now that our automotive multi-verse is organized around smaller motors and forced induction, it makes more sense to have an inline motor where the six-pot version can just be a further development of the inline-four. Do the math: Benz's forthcoming new 2.0-liter inline-four linearly extrapolates to this 3.0-liter inline-six. Welcome to contemporary economies of scale. "We build one engine as a family," says Weller. "It must be flexible on the production line, and must meet the same hard mounting points in every car. This new block can do that." Additionally, because it's a straight-six engine, and not a V, there is a nice long "cool" intake (non-exhaust) side to the motor on which many of these advanced components can be safely housed, obviating the need for pricey and complex systems to stabilize their temperature or prolong their lifespan. Compare that to the complexity involved in keeping the bits of a "hot-vee" turbocharged V8, like the company's biturbo 4.0-liter V8, cool and happy. More savings for Benz. Intriguingly, there are benefits to the consumer as well. Much has been made of the unique mechanical and technological advances integrated in this motor, and they're quite impressive. It is the first Mercedes with a 48-volt electrical system, its intense (shocking?) power generated by what Mercedes calls the "Integrated Starter Generator," sandwiched between the motor and the transmission.
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: MarkZ]
#3027675
03/26/22 09:34 AM
03/26/22 09:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,831 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,831
Holland MI Ottawa
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All I see is buckets of money pissed away when the tiniest thing on that complex mess of an engine decides to fail. Owning this stuff once the factory warranty expires becomes a liability. Even while under warranty there's lots of tactics to not address root causes of obvious problems.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: Dart 500]
#3027683
03/26/22 10:04 AM
03/26/22 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
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So cluttered up it sure does not look like an inline 6
“High-flow ball-valve thermostat minimizes restriction in the cooling system, reducing mechanical losses”
so much for cooling systems “needing restriction to properly carry away the heat”
begin quote
“ Tough Coating for The Cylinders
Less friction, reduced weight and unparalleled wear resistance from a thermal sprayed microstructure of metallic and oxide components that metallurgically transformare the key benefits of the PTWA coating inside the cylinders, an alternative to the traditional cast-in-place or pressed-in cast iron cylinder liners. The PTWA coating is ultra-thin, compared with 3 to 4 millimeters of a cast iron liner, and has 10 times the wear resistance.
Minimizing friction throughout the engine enhances its efficiency, reducing its emissions and fuel consumption.
The PTWA coating is applied to the Hurricane block during the manufacturing process at the Saltillo North Engine Plant. The process, adapted from the aerospace industry, melts a steel alloy wire at 2,300 degrees Celsius (4,150 degrees Fahrenheit), producing microscopic particles sprayed onto the cylinder walls at high velocities, where the particles splat-cool to form the coating and form a physical bond to the aluminum cylinder bore. Honing the surface gives it a super-fine cross hatch pattern with controlled micro porosity for oil retention.
The PTWA spray process leaves more aluminum between the cylinders for better heat transfer and engine cooling. This enables propulsion engineers to optimize the air-fuel mixture and advance the ignition timing (spark) over a wide operating range, another mechanism to reduce carbon dioxide and other emissions.”
end quote
It used to be a rule of thumb that maximum average up and down piston speed should not exceed 1000 feet per minute at the best rpm for fuel economy.
With ever thinner low drag rings, and now special bore coatings, maybe the optimum fuel economy piston speed has moved up to 1500 feet per minute, or even 2000?
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: justinp61]
#3027795
03/26/22 03:56 PM
03/26/22 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
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Kalispell Mt.
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Too many places for leaks and too complicated to work on... a real double whammy to why it will suck, it is so easy to work on the hemis that is part of their beauty compared to the twin turbo garbage out there already. Twin turbos, all the piping for exhaust and intake pressure and intercoolers just makes it such a pain that the benefit of that crap just isn't justified with the minor improvements in EPA ratings, the ecoboost may have higher ratings from the EPA but they don't translate into any real world savings I have seen it first hand. If this was just a NA straight 6 I would be a lot more excited about it honestly.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3029240
03/31/22 02:54 PM
03/31/22 02:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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One cylinder head. One set of cams. Simple cam drive system. One exhaust manifold (head integrated?) One set of cam sensors. Inline design simplifies forces inside the engine and increases the chances of long life.
Most engines are moving towards 500cc per cylinder because the cylinder diameter lends itself to rapid complete burn for better efficiency and lower emissions. Most everyone has a 2.0 4 cylinder, and 3.0 6 cylinder. New V8s are trending towards 4 liters. Even my V12 is a 6 liter.
If done properly, this little 6 could be a tough engine to beat. It'll never have the beloved V8 lumpity lump but should be able to hold its own.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: feets]
#3029384
04/01/22 01:04 AM
04/01/22 01:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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One cylinder head. One set of cams. Simple cam drive system. One exhaust manifold (head integrated?) One set of cam sensors. Inline design simplifies forces inside the engine and increases the chances of long life.
Most engines are moving towards 500cc per cylinder because the cylinder diameter lends itself to rapid complete burn for better efficiency and lower emissions. Most everyone has a 2.0 4 cylinder, and 3.0 6 cylinder. New V8s are trending towards 4 liters. Even my V12 is a 6 liter.
If done properly, this little 6 could be a tough engine to beat. It'll never have the beloved V8 lumpity lump but should be able to hold its own. Thanks feets for your down to earth logic as always Mike
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: 71TA]
#3029410
04/01/22 06:41 AM
04/01/22 06:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
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Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
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USA
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I went a Mopar Tech Center open house YEARS ago. My host was showing me the dyno room. I asked whats that? He said “the Hurricane, but you didnt see that” Im thinking this had to be 6-7 YEARS ago? So maybe it was designed 8 years ago if you saw it on the dyno 6 years ago? “15% more efficient than larger engines” So maybe 12% (or less ) efficient than older design 3.0 L engines? 12% divided by 8 years ago, = 1.5% efficiency improvement per year That is in the ballpark of how hard it is to improve efficiency per year. Newly re-implemented 55 MPG EPA rule ignores this history, and essentially outlaws future vehicles having gasoline or diesel engines, maybe even hydrogen IC engines.
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: A12]
#3029416
04/01/22 07:18 AM
04/01/22 07:18 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,511 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
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Newly re-implemented 55 MPG EPA rule ignores this history, and essentially outlaws future vehicles having gasoline or diesel engines, maybe even hydrogen IC engines. Isn't that 55 MPG EPA, a CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standard and not every manufacture's vehicle? Some if not most of those hybrids are in place just for CAFE and the manufactures will just keep making more models to keep inline with CAFE and still build those gas guzzlers to within 1 MPG CAFE to meet it. I know personally how Honda for years had over 58 models of motorcycles per year that as corporate averaging would meet emission standards by 1 gram over the total model line. One of the bikes was an almost race emission model that was even over the national limit and still able to be sold......except in California. The manufactures that want to keep selling low MPG and high emissions vehicles will figure it out and is some cases the consumer will pay the "gas guzzler tax" and drive what they want........and some will still complain Please everyone keep buying those hybrids and EV so the rest of us can still have our polluting gas guzzlers Emissions are not a corporate average, each engine combo has to meet them.
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: Sniper]
#3029429
04/01/22 08:41 AM
04/01/22 08:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704
N.E. OHIO, USA
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It's been going on for decades in all vehicle (cars, truck, motorcycles), That's the main reason for manufactures to have hybrids and low(er) emissions models in the fleet. Why would a manufacture waste their time making models so much lower than the current standards (like hybrids and EV's) if there's no benefit to that? Same as CAFE is done with emissions. Do a search. I did on-highway and off-highway emission compliance for a motorcycle manufacture for over 25 years and had to deal with it, so yes I know it still exists.
Definitions of Fleet Average Emission Fleet Average Emission means a vehicle manufacturer’s average vehicle emissions of all greenhouse gases, non-methane organic gases (NMOG), or NMOG plus oxides of nitrogen (NMOG + NOx), as applicable, from all new vehicles delivered for sale or lease in any model-year.(Break in Continuity of Sections) 12/11/2013 12/11/175.0 New Vehicle Emission Requirements5.1
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: Sniper]
#3029431
04/01/22 08:43 AM
04/01/22 08:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,704
N.E. OHIO, USA
|
Newly re-implemented 55 MPG EPA rule ignores this history, and essentially outlaws future vehicles having gasoline or diesel engines, maybe even hydrogen IC engines. Isn't that 55 MPG EPA, a CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standard and not every manufacture's vehicle? Some if not most of those hybrids are in place just for CAFE and the manufactures will just keep making more models to keep inline with CAFE and still build those gas guzzlers to within 1 MPG CAFE to meet it. I know personally how Honda for years had over 58 models of motorcycles per year that as corporate averaging would meet emission standards by 1 gram over the total model line. One of the bikes was an almost race emission model that was even over the national limit and still able to be sold......except in California. The manufactures that want to keep selling low MPG and high emissions vehicles will figure it out and is some cases the consumer will pay the "gas guzzler tax" and drive what they want........and some will still complain Please everyone keep buying those hybrids and EV so the rest of us can still have our polluting gas guzzlers Emissions are not a corporate average, each engine FAMILY has to meet them. Fixed
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Re: New 3.0L Inline 6 from Chrysler, 500hp
[Re: hemi70se]
#3029519
04/01/22 12:51 PM
04/01/22 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478
Kalispell Mt.
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I've had this idea for years now... with all the technology that has gone into modern engines why can't they design a NEW engine that has computer controlled solenoids to open the valves. This could eliminate the camshaft, timing gears and timing chains which are frequent cause of needed engine wear repairs/ failures. Also eliminate throttle bodies as they are no longer needed, no need to have EGR valves as you can infinatly adjust the intake closing point to reduce cylinder pressure, they could eliminate oil to the entire top of the engine (valves could get permanent lube like a wheel bearing and you would have no rockers, lifters, timing gears/chains to oil) and could have such a broad range of power that we would be able to go back to less complex transmissions, no 10 speed needed if it makes lots of TQ down low and HP up high...
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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