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Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer #3019521
02/27/22 09:15 PM
02/27/22 09:15 PM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Anyone know size specifics on what would work?
I have read that the thickness is like .030ā€ but what about hole size and diameter?
Thanks

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Wirenut] #3019563
02/28/22 12:35 AM
02/28/22 12:35 AM
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West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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What are you going to do for races to run it on? The sintered bronze bushing will never hold up to a Torrington Bearing riding on it.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Wirenut] #3019572
02/28/22 01:50 AM
02/28/22 01:50 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Me thinks that is a problem created on an internet myth that some folks who don't have hands on experiences talk about and advocate the use of to cure a problem that normally does not exist work twocents
The oil pump gear in BB Mopars rotates counterclockwise and the cam gear is trying to push it towards the rear of the block, the cam lobe taper rotates the flat lifters and that tries to push the lobes forwards scope Those two forces end up reducing the movement of the cam against the gear work scope twocents Roller cam do not normally push the cam either way unless the lifters bores are not straight up and down scope
I've raced and built BB Mopars for a long time, I've seen one bronze gear go bad in that time, no stock gears ever work shruggy the bronze gear that went bad was reused on new cam by another engine builder and didn't live very long before eating itself up on the new cam work
I will not reuse a bronze gear on any other cam, I will and have reuse the original gear on the same cam when freshening a drag race motor and a street and strip motor up
My pump gas Duster motor had over 3000 street miles on it and hundreds of both 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile passes on it when I traded it off, I have not heard it went bad so far luck whistling grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: jbc426] #3019581
02/28/22 05:35 AM
02/28/22 05:35 AM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jbc426
What are you going to do for races to run it on? The sintered bronze bushing will never hold up to a Torrington Bearing riding on it.


Washer not bearing

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Cab_Burge] #3019582
02/28/22 05:36 AM
02/28/22 05:36 AM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Me thinks that is a problem created on an internet myth that some folks who don't have hands on experiences talk about and advocate the use of to cure a problem that normally does not exist work twocents
The oil pump gear in BB Mopars rotates counterclockwise and the cam gear is trying to push it towards the rear of the block, the cam lobe taper rotates the flat lifters and that tries to push the lobes forwards scope Those two forces end up reducing the movement of the cam against the gear work scope twocents Roller cam do not normally push the cam either way unless the lifters bores are not straight up and down scope
I've raced and built BB Mopars for a long time, I've seen one bronze gear go bad in that time, no stock gears ever work shruggy the bronze gear that went bad was reused on new cam by another engine builder and didn't live very long before eating itself up on the new cam work
I will not reuse a bronze gear on any other cam, I will and have reuse the original gear on the same cam when freshening a drag race motor and a street and strip motor up
My pump gas Duster motor had over 3000 street miles on it and hundreds of both 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile passes on it when I traded it off, I have not heard it went bad so far luck whistling grin


Backside of bronze gear is showing wear on intermediate shaft bushing . Looking to stop the wear
Thanks

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Wirenut] #3019620
02/28/22 10:22 AM
02/28/22 10:22 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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I am a big fan of the washer. There is a simple law of physics that causes the bronze to fail - its the fact that the two parts in contact are both bronze - similar metals. Putting a "dissimilar" metal between them eliminates the problem. It's the same reason they don't use a steel intermediate gear with a steel billet roller cam. They solved that problem using the bronze gear but apparently didn't consider the bushing it would be in contact with. Maybe they didn't count on rollers ever being used in high milage street use, who knows !!

As to the OP's question, you want a .030" thick washer. Obviously with a large enough hole for the shaft to fit through. You won't find the exact size because the shaft is an oddball .486 dia. but a washer with a 1/2" hole will work just fine. On some gears I've turned the underside down the thickness of the washer but I don't bother anymore.

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Stanton] #3019627
02/28/22 10:40 AM
02/28/22 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanton
I am a big fan of the washer. There is a simple law of physics that causes the bronze to fail - its the fact that the two parts in contact are both bronze - similar metals. Putting a "dissimilar" metal between them eliminates the problem. It's the same reason they don't use a steel intermediate gear with a steel billet roller cam. They solved that problem using the bronze gear but apparently didn't consider the bushing it would be in contact with. Maybe they didn't count on rollers ever being used in high milage street use, who knows !!

As to the OP's question, you want a .030" thick washer. Obviously with a large enough hole for the shaft to fit through. You won't find the exact size because the shaft is an oddball .486 dia. but a washer with a 1/2" hole will work just fine. On some gears I've turned the underside down the thickness of the washer but I don't bother anymore.


Thanks
Iā€™m assuming the washer outer diameter need only be as large as the bushing?

There is a slight ridge that I will machine off

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Wirenut] #3019876
03/01/22 01:04 AM
03/01/22 01:04 AM
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Indiana
Gabby63 Offline
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Yes use a Stainless washer , I just did this on my brass gear . Basically as described above . For availability in my area I could not get a stainless washer any thinner than .060 . So That is what I had to work with . But I machined the Brass gear to accomodate this thickness . Seems like it was the thickness of the raised area on back of gear plus .040 . works very well . I could only find the picture of the back of gear . Gary

DSC05547.JPG
Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Gabby63] #3019888
03/01/22 08:56 AM
03/01/22 08:56 AM
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St.Pete,Florida
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Graingers has steel thrust washers in a variety of sizes. I purchased 2 different sizes from them. One was .937"x.502"x.030". The o.d. is approximately .060" less than the thrust surface of the bronze pump driveshaft bushing in the block. Installed, the distributor still did not bottom out in the drive gear. Haven't run the motor yet. You just have to remember (or note) that washer is on there when you pull the pump shaft out or that washer will end up in the engine somewhere it isn't supposed to be be. I will try to find part#s in my notes. Bill

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: lancer493] #3019909
03/01/22 10:10 AM
03/01/22 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by lancer493
Graingers has steel thrust washers in a variety of sizes. I purchased 2 different sizes from them. One was .937"x.502"x.030". The o.d. is approximately .060" less than the thrust surface of the bronze pump driveshaft bushing in the block. Installed, the distributor still did not bottom out in the drive gear. Haven't run the motor yet. You just have to remember (or note) that washer is on there when you pull the pump shaft out or that washer will end up in the engine somewhere it isn't supposed to be be. I will try to find part#s in my notes. Bill


Thanks Bill appreciate it

Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: jbc426] #3019922
03/01/22 10:46 AM
03/01/22 10:46 AM
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I ran one for years because the bushing in the block was wore out so Pettis cut down the gear on the pump drive and all was good...


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Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: Thumperdart] #3019983
03/01/22 02:05 PM
03/01/22 02:05 PM
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Southington Ct.
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This should work and is probably hard considering that its meant for a Torrington needle thrust roller bearing. I would also assume its ground and has a suitable surface finish.

https://www.mcmaster.com/5909K44/


This would be a second choice although the OD is a little small.

https://www.mcmaster.com/shims/material~steel/shape~ring/id~1-2/material~1074-1095-spring-steel/

AG.

Last edited by turbobitt; 03/01/22 02:09 PM.

1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Oil pump drive gear Torrington washer [Re: turbobitt] #3020006
03/01/22 03:14 PM
03/01/22 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by turbobitt
This should work and is probably hard considering that its meant for a Torrington needle thrust roller bearing. I would also assume its ground and has a suitable surface finish.

https://www.mcmaster.com/5909K44/


This would be a second choice although the OD is a little small.

https://www.mcmaster.com/shims/material~steel/shape~ring/id~1-2/material~1074-1095-spring-steel/

AG.


Thanks very much!!!







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