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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: A727Tflite] #3018268
02/23/22 10:29 PM
02/23/22 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Transman
Go to the nearest Catholic Church and get some Holy Water. Sprinkle some on you and some on the engine.
Let us know how it goes. We will pray for you.

iagree pity

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018288
02/23/22 11:26 PM
02/23/22 11:26 PM
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Two things i would do before going forward on finding out what is wrong is to remove and cut the oil filter apart and see if there are metal filings in the pleats or not. I cut the metal cover off up near the top and then use my pocketknife to cut the pleats all the way around the filter at the top and bottom and cut one pleat lengthwise to peal and remove the rest of the element from the center and spread it apart and look in the joints of the pleats up scope
If there are metal shavings or chunks in the bottoms of the pleats wrench scope If so please post pictures of what you see.
If no metal in the filter remove the oil pump with the filter off and remove and look at the bypass valve to see if it has junk in it or has marks on it from debris possibly making it stick partially open making no oil pressure wrench scope
Let us know what you find from that please before doing anything else twocents up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Cab_Burge] #3018289
02/23/22 11:27 PM
02/23/22 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Two things i would do before going forward on finding out what is wrong is to remove and cut the oil filter apart and see if there are metal filings in the pleats or not. I cut the metal cover off up near the top and then use my pocketknife to cut the pleats all the way around the filter at the top and bottom and cut one pleat lengthwise to peal and remove the rest of the element from the center and spread it apart and look in the joints of the pleats up scope
If there are metal shavings or chunks in the bottoms of the pleats wrench scope If so please post pictures of what you see.
If no metal in the filter remove the oil pump with the filter off and remove and look at the bypass valve to see if it has junk in it or has marks on it from debris possibly making it stick partially open making no oil pressure wrench scope
Let us know what you find from that please before doing anything else twocents up


He should do that with the filter he just removed.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018412
02/24/22 11:36 AM
02/24/22 11:36 AM
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Pasadena, Texas
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Transman, TJP- ironically I am Catholic. Father, about that exorcism Mass..
Cab- made some notes and will follow through with recommendations. Will post findings.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018421
02/24/22 11:56 AM
02/24/22 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by fal3
Transman, TJP- ironically I am Catholic. Father, about that exorcism Mass..
Cab- made some notes and will follow through with recommendations. Will post findings.


Me too.

On a serious note, I was not making fun of your predicament. It’s a phrase we use a lot around here

That metallic noise, could be a lot of things. Might want to try the old metal rod held to your ear trick.
Place it at different points around the engine and see where it is the strongest.

Try rocking the crank back and forth when you hear it, see if it’s slop in the rotating assembly, etc.

At this point with all the fuel you had in the oil, it’s probably a good idea to pull the pan.
Check the rod bearings, look up at the bores. Checking the filter isn’t going to be conclusive, you could have wounded the bearings bad enough yet not put any metal in the filter.

Last edited by Transman; 02/24/22 12:03 PM.
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018522
02/24/22 03:38 PM
02/24/22 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fal3
Transman, TJP- ironically I am Catholic. Father, about that exorcism Mass..
Cab- made some notes and will follow through with recommendations. Will post findings.

As am I. Do keep us posted wink

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: TJP] #3018530
02/24/22 03:51 PM
02/24/22 03:51 PM
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Engine oiling issues and religion…..they always get tangled up.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018567
02/24/22 05:23 PM
02/24/22 05:23 PM
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Have images to view for you. Took filter apart; pleats with heavy line faced to outside of filter. The relief spring area image didn't get what I exactly wanted. Was trying to show grooves deep inside just before relief. Plunger for relief spring was taken @ 90* intervals.

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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018574
02/24/22 05:29 PM
02/24/22 05:29 PM
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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018577
02/24/22 05:31 PM
02/24/22 05:31 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018579
02/24/22 05:33 PM
02/24/22 05:33 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018584
02/24/22 05:44 PM
02/24/22 05:44 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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Transman- we're good.
Pacnorthcuda- you'd think I'd learn that the first time!
Hope images will help with further diagnosis. Guys-thanks for the input and taking time to help get the old iron on the road.
I did not see any metal chunks/shavings in filter pleats or oil pump. Good sign?

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018604
02/24/22 07:02 PM
02/24/22 07:02 PM
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The pan needs to come off or the engine pulled. That pump had a ton of shrapnel pulled into it. Most likely will need a complete tear down, evaluation and rebuild.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018607
02/24/22 07:15 PM
02/24/22 07:15 PM
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The filter looks good up
The bypass valve doesn't: down:
Take a good close look in the oil pump top in the bypass valve chamber and see if it is damaged or not, look for grooves or scratches matching the marks on the bypass vale or any tiny debris inside it or in the removable plug scope
I'm sure the bypass valve stuck open causing the no or very low oil pressure shruggy
I've had that happen more than once when a part failed like a valve spring breaking or another small piece got caught in between the valve and oil pump top chamber whiney I cleaned and polish the valve and made sure it would slide in and out of the chamber dry and reused them after wards with no more problems in both stock pumps and a Mildon aluminum pump cover up
As far as checking the motor for rod bearing damage you can take all the spark plugs out and try rotating the motor both ways for several revolutions both ways and see if you can feel any differences when reversing directions or not scope wrench
if you can feel a difference take the motor apart. whiney wrench
If you can't feel anything, put everything back together and prime it with the plugs out and spin it over on the starter watching the oil pressure before running it again twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Cab_Burge] #3018622
02/24/22 08:02 PM
02/24/22 08:02 PM
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The lack of debris in the filter is a good sign. The pump has seen better days - some crap has go through there at some point. The fact the pump cover isn't scored is a good sign. For the cost I wouldn't dick around with that pump, I'd just put a new one on.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Cab_Burge] #3018627
02/24/22 08:11 PM
02/24/22 08:11 PM
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Once you clean the pump and internals check and see if the relief valve will fall out of its bore from It’s own weight.

If it does, as a trial you can assemble the pump and reinstall and see if you get pressures. I have seen much worse pump rotors and valve function just fine.
I would check rotor face clearance while you have it apart - I think max is .004” across the top of the rotors to the body.

As for trying to determine the internal condition of the engine, especially the bearings you will be well served by just pulling the pan.
The old saying - “motors run the fastest just before they blow up” could apply here.

You still have to find the source of that clicking. And if those are bubbles in the filter, it looks like you are sucking air. Not sure if s stuck relief valve would do that.

Last edited by Transman; 02/24/22 08:13 PM.
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018666
02/24/22 10:29 PM
02/24/22 10:29 PM
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Alberta
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You did get some short lived oil pressure, and then it went away. I wonder, if you had a crack in your pick up, where the crack is submerged in oil initially. As you prime the engine, the oil level goes down below the crack, and then you're sucking air?
Transman, I like the point about the bubbles in the oil filter....

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: 440_Offroader] #3018687
02/25/22 12:18 AM
02/25/22 12:18 AM
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I've had pumps worse than that provide plenty of pressure as long as the relief wasn't stuck. Not that it looks great. Is that the 1st filter or the second?
Doug

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: dvw] #3018726
02/25/22 08:27 AM
02/25/22 08:27 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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I agree with the pump , I'll even say that the relief is ok. But I bet the clicking is the bottom end contacting the pickup and now it has either cracked or worn through.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: B1MAXX] #3018729
02/25/22 09:09 AM
02/25/22 09:09 AM
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Im goona jump on the ejected lifter idea, just too much like an issue I chased when younger and got to the lockup stage after running as described and trying about 46 fixes with zero luck.

Good luck though!


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