Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Tubing lifter bores in a small block #3008890
01/25/22 03:56 PM
01/25/22 03:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Online content OP
top fuel
WadeMetzinger  Online Content OP
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
Does anyone happen to have any of these on their shelf they've like to get rid of?

I've got a 340 block that I need to put lifter galley tubes in because roller lifter cut outs are coming out above the lifter bores.

I could replace lifters and pushrods but that'll cost over $1,000

I could bush the lifter bores but that'll cost at least $1,200

So I'm looking for the parts to install tubes in the lifter oil galleys.

Mancini and other Mopar dealers are all out of stock so looking to see if anyone has any on the shelf they'd sell me? (my number is in my signature)

P5249508 - Drill and ream package

P4120603 - Tube and peen tool package

race-oil-restriction-packages-17.jpgreamer.jpg

Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987
71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide
68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys
Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: WadeMetzinger] #3008901
01/25/22 04:26 PM
01/25/22 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,412
541 slobovia
A990 Offline
top fuel
A990  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,412
541 slobovia
I recently discovered this lifter bushing kit from Wydendorf Machine

https://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

Hope this helps
Ken

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: A990] #3009017
01/25/22 09:46 PM
01/25/22 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,407
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,407
Portage,michigan
1200 to bush lifter bores?
The shop that did my motor had to send the block out to BES to get it done, was still only 900.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3350 race weight
418 Bloomer headed stroker
Best so far, 10.71 at 124.48
1.44 best 60 foot.
6.76 at 101.63 best 1 /8

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: WadeMetzinger] #3009060
01/26/22 01:13 AM
01/26/22 01:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
You buy the drill, reamer and tubing from MSC supply. Round off and old lifter for the peen tool. Should be less than 125 bucks.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009061
01/26/22 01:27 AM
01/26/22 01:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,682
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,682
Fulton County, PA
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: CMcAllister] #3009081
01/26/22 07:11 AM
01/26/22 07:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon Offline
enthusiast
Gtxxjon  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
Wonderful subject indeed.

I have a race 340 block here that had the long tubes fitted for roller lifters?

It did not end well for the crank, rods and bearings...!

The tubing has starved the bigends of much needed oil...

So I have removed the offending tubes and will be purchasing the Wydendorf kit ASAP. penguin

You have been warned lol... fan


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!

There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: Gtxxjon] #3009083
01/26/22 07:38 AM
01/26/22 07:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,429
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Online content
master
Bad340fish  Online Content
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,429
Tulsa OK
Originally Posted by Gtxxjon
Wonderful subject indeed.

I have a race 340 block here that had the long tubes fitted for roller lifters?

It did not end well for the crank, rods and bearings...!

The tubing has starved the bigends of much needed oil...

So I have removed the offending tubes and will be purchasing the Wydendorf kit ASAP. penguin

You have been warned lol... fan


You do have to drill the tube from the mains so they will get oil smile

Its probably safe to say that there is thousands and thousands of small blocks with the galley tubed. I put 4 drag weeks on a 360 with the lifter oiling blocked off.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: Bad340fish] #3009093
01/26/22 08:37 AM
01/26/22 08:37 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,501
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Online content
pro stock
B1MAXX  Online Content
pro stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,501
Apollo, PA.
I've done it twice. I drill first to 9/16. Then to 5/8. I have two drill bits I made by welding round stock to the bits. There was two peening tools mopar made one was rounded end the other was more of a pencil shape the round nose works easier.

Last edited by B1MAXX; 01/26/22 08:37 AM.
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: CMcAllister] #3009137
01/26/22 11:18 AM
01/26/22 11:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009198
01/26/22 02:03 PM
01/26/22 02:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon Offline
enthusiast
Gtxxjon  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
That’s very funny ‘bad fish’ lol... thumbs

The longer smaller drill is to cross-drill the crank feed oil holes but,
It’s probably too small for race use?
If I had opened them up to something larger it may have been OK?

If I remember correctly the end feed was more the issue...

Anyways it’s gone now, just got to get the Wydendorf kit, for many reasons lol...

Last edited by Gtxxjon; 01/26/22 02:04 PM.

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!

There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009200
01/26/22 02:04 PM
01/26/22 02:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,609
Lubbock,TX
D
DavidDean Offline
top fuel
DavidDean  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,609
Lubbock,TX
I've done several blocks through time. I prefer a 5/8 OD copper tube. I've also done a few with a thin wall 9/16 copper tube, its a little thin for me. The tip about the tube fitting slightly loose is great advice. I've purchased my bits and reamers through Mcmaster and had an extension welded. When redrilling the oil galleys take the time to drill them slightly oversize. I think the original instructions called for 9/32 I've done most to 5/16. Be careful with every step ! When peening the tube I've used a ground lifter for the first trip after that I've used a broaching tool from Goodson that works very well. It may take some work to get the lifters to slide in the bore. I've also used an adjustable reamer in the lifter bores to get everything where there was no binding or tight spots. Be careful not to get the bores oversize. At one time there was an article in tech archives by Herb McCandless that was very good. I have a number of Mopar performance articles covering this modification. PM me as needed. If you're using push rod oiling both sides can be tubed but the lifter bores will need an oil feed hole and you'll need the special Mopar tool to do this. I have an X block done that way.

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009205
01/26/22 02:12 PM
01/26/22 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,682
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,682
Fulton County, PA
I can see it being done on a build that's on a tight budget. But the advantages of doing the bushings on anything good makes that a no brainer..

Corrects the bore location and corrects the bore size on all 16 holes, more friendly material for the lifters given the side loads in the standard small block.

I had one done with the tube many years ago. Machine shop guy did it on a vertical mill that was able to run the correct speed and feed. Used one of the DC reamers with a pilot ground on the end to the size of the galley to keep it from wandering off center like they want to do as they intersect the lifter bores. Properly annealed the tubing to dead soft so it could be peened easily. That worked okay, but most guys don't want to go through all that.

I can tell you, a straight piece of copper tube from the plumbing department down at Home Cheapo is too hard and is asking for trouble.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 01/26/22 02:14 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: CMcAllister] #3009236
01/26/22 02:42 PM
01/26/22 02:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 15,957
north of coder
moparx Online content
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Online Content
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 15,957
north of coder
a pilot is always needed on following a long hole, reaming oversize. just good machining practice to prevent wandering.
way easier to do it this way, than to try straightening up the hole after it wanders off. [into the sunset]
beer

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009301
01/26/22 04:33 PM
01/26/22 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Online content OP
top fuel
WadeMetzinger  Online Content OP
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.


I would appreciate any help with this. The Mopar supplies seem to be gone, so can I just use a standard 5/8" copper tubing?


Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987
71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide
68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys
Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: WadeMetzinger] #3009316
01/26/22 05:18 PM
01/26/22 05:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
I’ll get the part numbers tonight and post them.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: madscientist] #3009318
01/26/22 05:28 PM
01/26/22 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,407
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,407
Portage,michigan
Not sure what the guy did who built the shortblock i bought( he is no longer in business) and the shortblock was riddled with issues….but the reason i had to do lifter bushings is because the block was tubed for a roller cam, and all the lifter bores on that side of the block were wallowed out on the bottoms of the bores. The bores got “ wider” from top to bottom to the point my guy felt uncomfortable with me running my solid cam and lifters in it( had him remove the tube). Quite the friggin mess
I bought the shortblock in Detroit from a really nice guy who had it earmarked for a B body who decided to wait on his Gen 2 hemi to be finished.
Tight bearing clearances, cocked freeze plugs, yada, yada

Last edited by B3422W5; 01/26/22 05:32 PM.

69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3350 race weight
418 Bloomer headed stroker
Best so far, 10.71 at 124.48
1.44 best 60 foot.
6.76 at 101.63 best 1 /8

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block [Re: WadeMetzinger] #3010924
01/31/22 06:49 PM
01/31/22 06:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,385
Washington
Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.


I would appreciate any help with this. The Mopar supplies seem to be gone, so can I just use a standard 5/8" copper tubing?


Hey Wade, finally got the chance to look up the numbers for you. I bought all this in 2009. I bought enough that I still have enough tubing to do 4 or 5 more blocks so my pricing isn’t right.

For the copper tubing I used the 5 foot sticks and the MSC part number is 65177552. It is nominally sized at .625 and at one time I measured it and it was .625-.624 and it’s not perfectly round.

The MSC part number for the reamer is 81136277 for the import reamer and it was about 18 bucks at the time. The USA made reamer, which I bought is part number 02297604 and it was about 40 bucks at the time. It’s diameter is .6229/16 mm. It will allow a nice slip fit. Once you peen the tube it can’t move.

It’s really a very simple job to do.

I did turn the end of the reamer down to .500 and I then TIG welded an extension on it, then machined the extension down so it reams straight.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1