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some info on the Nikola Semi Truck #2997603
12/22/21 02:14 PM
12/22/21 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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my own world
theraif Offline OP
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theraif  Offline OP
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yah that would work Nikola says that the truck can charge from 10 to 80 percent in two hours claims can travel up to 500 miles. also Last year, founder and executive chairman Trevor Milton stepped down amid fraud investigations

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38569564/nikola-electric-semi-trucks-delivered/

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: theraif] #2997612
12/22/21 02:44 PM
12/22/21 02:44 PM
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Posts: 8,159
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
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The whole seems to me to be a scam and they aren't going to make a profit with the present technology.
I work for a truck OEM and my company has been working on EV technology for some time now. We are just now starting to deliver our first EV school busses after years of development. Since the busses are on the same basic platform as medium duty trucks they are working on making some EV medium duty trucks which could be on the market in the near future . Given the variety of vocations trucks are used in, there aren't too many where EV is practical. School buses are possibly practical for being EV as they sit all night in a depot and can be charged there, then after the morning run, go back to the depot and can be charged more before going out for the afternoon duties.
Perhaps EV medium duty trucks used in urban delivery type roles can be practical too, if they are used for the day and then get charged overnight before going out for another day of work.
But over the road EV trucks are a long way from ever being practical. I heard some proposal a while back to have OTR EV semis pull into specially equipped truck stops where their discharged battery packs could be swapped for fully charged ones in about the time it takes to fill up a diesel rig, but I don't think that idea went anywhere. I hear more talk about fuel cell development than I do about making everything EV at this point.
A number of vocations I don't see EV every being practical regardless of how far EV technology advances. I work on the severe service platform and very little of what I work on can work with EV from what I see, For example fire trucks. They run out to emergencies where they might sit running and operating for hours with lights flashing, large volume pumps pumping, ladders being raised and lowered, how will a battery pack ever be able to work for that duty?
I'm not involved in advanced programs tasked with replacing diesel but what I've stated is based on things I hear at work.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Mastershake340] #2997621
12/22/21 03:20 PM
12/22/21 03:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,447
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Pacnorthcuda  Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
I’m retired PACCAR (Kenworth, Peterbilt, DAF trucks). PACCAR has been working on this tech for over 20 years. The first class 8 are coming out of development. Interesting that the first Nikola trucks were sold to the California ports, they are incredibly anti-ice, anti petroleum. We were selling LNG trucks to them over 12 years ago.
The cost of these trucks is very high, and we will all pay it.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Mastershake340] #2997653
12/22/21 06:42 PM
12/22/21 06:42 PM
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Posts: 7,997
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline
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I have a better idea - I have been very involved as a supplier to the class 8 market since 2001 - exhaust related.

My idea = diesel trucks. Remember the 2010 emissions? Word was when one was running, it was emitting cleaner air out the stacks than we normally breathe. I know engineers like to be innovative, & there is this curious urgency to "move forward" in today's era, but you know what? The wheel has already been invented.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2997656
12/22/21 06:51 PM
12/22/21 06:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,447
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
I have a better idea - I have been very involved as a supplier to the class 8 market since 2001 - exhaust related.

My idea = diesel trucks. Remember the 2010 emissions? Word was when one was running, it was emitting cleaner air out the stacks than we normally breathe. I know engineers like to be innovative, & there is this curious urgency to "move forward" in today's era, but you know what? The wheel has already been invented.


I remember that “cleaner than we breathe” stuff. What’s always left off is that it’s only true for 2 exhaust components, oxides of nitrogen and something else that I forget. It’s not true for carbon monoxide and other pollutants, but it makes for good conversation. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no environmentalist greenie, not by a long shot!

Last edited by Pacnorthcuda; 12/22/21 06:52 PM.
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2997657
12/22/21 06:53 PM
12/22/21 06:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,382
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
I have a better idea - I have been very involved as a supplier to the class 8 market since 2001 - exhaust related.

My idea = diesel trucks. Remember the 2010 emissions? Word was when one was running, it was emitting cleaner air out the stacks than we normally breathe. I know engineers like to be innovative, & there is this curious urgency to "move forward" in today's era, but you know what? The wheel has already been invented.


We recently had a 2018 F750 get totaled at work. Due to the shortages with trucks and our unique needs we bought a used one from another Distributor to tie us over. We bought an 06 Kenworth so no DEF and no DPF. I had forgotten what a diesel truck smelled like haha. Nor surprisingly it has more power and gets better mileage.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Bad340fish] #2997666
12/22/21 07:32 PM
12/22/21 07:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,447
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Diesel fuel used to have 3000-5000 ppm sulfur back in the day. In the 90’s it was regulated down to 500ppm, now it’s 15 ppm….ULSD. Diesel is far cleaner now, but it’s been a rough road….CAT failed with its ACERT engines and pulled out of the over the road truck engine market.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Mastershake340] #2997675
12/22/21 08:22 PM
12/22/21 08:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 694
Central Michigan
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nuthinbutmopar Offline
mopar
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Central Michigan
[quote=Mastershake340} A number of vocations I don't see EV every being practical regardless of how far EV technology advances. For example fire trucks. They run out to emergencies where they might sit running and operating for hours with lights flashing, large volume pumps pumping, ladders being raised and lowered, how will a battery pack ever be able to work for that duty?[/quote]

Did you see this article about Vancouver, BC, putting an electric firetruck in service?

Electric Firetruck?

The claim it will work great, even though it needs a diesel "helper" engine, and doesn't pump as much water as a regular unit, and ONLY costs 20% more...

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2997691
12/22/21 09:38 PM
12/22/21 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,997
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Diesel fuel used to have 3000-5000 ppm sulfur back in the day. In the 90’s it was regulated down to 500ppm, now it’s 15 ppm….ULSD. Diesel is far cleaner now, but it’s been a rough road….CAT failed with its ACERT engines and pulled out of the over the road truck engine market.


Let's get to the point of it all. Since ALL of 2008, we have had new diesel trucks running the new emissions motors & systems - VERY expensive, very undependable, terrible resale on the class-8 & medium duties, & shorter engine life. Also, with the ULS diesel, there is virtually no lubricity in the fuels anymore, so everybody is dumping additives into the tanks to make up for the loss in sulfur. I would bet there is NO measurable improvement in air quality. So what have we accomplished aside from "moving forward?" I'd say we've taken a few major steps backward.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2997692
12/22/21 09:42 PM
12/22/21 09:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,447
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Diesel fuel used to have 3000-5000 ppm sulfur back in the day. In the 90’s it was regulated down to 500ppm, now it’s 15 ppm….ULSD. Diesel is far cleaner now, but it’s been a rough road….CAT failed with its ACERT engines and pulled out of the over the road truck engine market.


Let's get to the point of it all. Since ALL of 2008, we have had new diesel trucks running the new emissions motors & systems - VERY expensive, very undependable, terrible resale on the class-8 & medium duties, & shorter engine life. Also, with the ULS diesel, there is virtually no lubricity in the fuels anymore, so everybody is dumping additives into the tanks to make up for the loss in sulfur. I would bet there is NO measurable improvement in air quality. So what have we accomplished aside from "moving forward?" I'd say we've taken a few major steps backward.


LA is far cleaner, by all metrics, but it’s been at great cost, worth it? Maybe, maybe not.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2997720
12/22/21 11:07 PM
12/22/21 11:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,060
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Omaha Ne
My question with the big Push to EV technology is, Where is all this electricity going to come from when certain areas already face shortages and brown out's?
Solar isn't there yet,
Wind farms aren't going to do it,
The recharge time isn't there yet,
The batteries are getting better but not there yet for long distances,
IMO we are putting the cart in front of the horse as the demand will skyrocket twocents shruggy

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: TJP] #2997727
12/22/21 11:25 PM
12/22/21 11:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,584
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
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WI
Originally Posted by TJP
My question with the big Push to EV technology is, Where is all this electricity going to come from when certain areas already face shortages and brown out's?
Solar isn't there yet,
Wind farms aren't going to do it,
The recharge time isn't there yet,
The batteries are getting better but not there yet for long distances,
IMO we are putting the cart in front of the horse as the demand will skyrocket twocents shruggy


Send those questions/statements to DC....there's a bunch of idiots there who have failed to think that far ahead.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Dcuda69] #2997732
12/22/21 11:45 PM
12/22/21 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 41,467
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Online penguin-006
Rhinotruck
Rhinodart  Online Penguin-006
Rhinotruck

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Posts: 41,467
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
I worked for Idealease which basically rents International trucks to lots of companies. The debacle of the MaxxForce engines kept me wondering how Navistar didn't go out of business! The mechanics were pulling out their hair trying to keep these trucks on the road. Replacing emissions systems constantly and having to regen sometimes daily and if a driver didn't pull over for a regen when it called for it the truck would shut down! Kept our tow truck drivers pretty busy... laugh2

Last edited by Rhinodart; 12/22/21 11:45 PM.

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Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Rhinodart] #2997738
12/23/21 12:14 AM
12/23/21 12:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,159
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
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If Cummins hadn’t agreed to sell Navistar their aftertreatment devices and engines after the Maxxforce 2010 emissions epic failure, the company would have gone bankrupt.
We survived and recovered, and since last July you can’t even order an International truck as the production schedule is completely full through 2022 and maybe even into 2023.
The Navistar engine business did essentially die though. Only a big bore Scania engine is still manufactured by Navistar for class 8 trucks.
It was announced a few weeks ago we hit 131% of bonus metrics so I’ll be looking forward to getting a nice big bonus check in about a month. punkrocka

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Dcuda69] #2997878
12/23/21 02:03 PM
12/23/21 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,804
my own world
theraif Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dcuda69
Originally Posted by TJP
My question with the big Push to EV technology is, Where is all this electricity going to come from when certain areas already face shortages and brown out's?
Solar isn't there yet,
Wind farms aren't going to do it,
The recharge time isn't there yet,
The batteries are getting better but not there yet for long distances,
IMO we are putting the cart in front of the horse as the demand will skyrocket twocents shruggy


Send those questions/statements to DC....there's a bunch of idiots there who have failed to think that far ahead.

if you were inclined to do so. do a youtube search on the coast of EV last one that i watched was getting the cobolt

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: theraif] #2997886
12/23/21 02:21 PM
12/23/21 02:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,664
new jersey usa
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11secdart Offline
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I drove a 2010 International box truck for about 8 years , it had the automatic trans with no park which I found odd, the truck was very troublesome but it didn't need DEF fluid somehow International got away from needing it that year, the company traded it on a new Idealease one about a year or so before they let me go , it did take DEF and seemed to run better its had a Cummins diesel whereas the old one was an International. In the old truck I was coming back to N.J. from a delivery on Long Island on the L.I.E. and the truck just died the muffler was red hot, I let it cool down and the truck still wouldn't run and ended up getting it towed something went wrong in the regeneration system. I think we used rental trucks more than the 2010 box truck as it was always in the shop same goes for the 05 International tractor they bought to pull their tanker trailers always in the shop and breaking down.

Last edited by 11secdart; 12/23/21 02:22 PM.

68 Dart 367/904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
20 Acura RDX
16 Honda HRV
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: 11secdart] #2997898
12/23/21 02:50 PM
12/23/21 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,159
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
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Originally Posted by 11secdart
I drove a 2010 International box truck for about 8 years , it had the automatic trans with no park which I found odd, the truck was very troublesome but it didn't need DEF fluid somehow International got away from needing it that year, the company traded it on a new Idealease one about a year or so before they let me go , it did take DEF and seemed to run better its had a Cummins diesel whereas the old one was an International. In the old truck I was coming back to N.J. from a delivery on Long Island on the L.I.E. and the truck just died the muffler was red hot, I let it cool down and the truck still wouldn't run and ended up getting it towed something went wrong in the regeneration system. I think we used rental trucks more than the 2010 box truck as it was always in the shop same goes for the 05 International tractor they bought to pull their tanker trailers always in the shop and breaking down.

Navistar was working on meeting the strict 2010 emission standards using a system that didn’t use DEF fluid in an after treatment device to meet the standards. It used a massive EGR system instead. Initially Cummins was working on the same concept but changed course when it became clear it wasn’t working out, and went with DEF.
Navistars CEO at the time was dead set on making the concept work and wouldn’t take no for an answer. Not only was it not meeting the standards and required using EPA credits while trying to make it work, but the trucks were breaking down constantly.
The board of directors tossed the CEO and somehow an agreement was made with Cummins to start supplying engines and their after treatment devices again, after they’d got dumped as a supplier. If Cummins had told Navistar to go pound sand it would have been game over.
The ex CEO was subject to many lawsuits for misleading stock holders.
The bad trucks were a big issue as their trade in value was next to nothing. Believe it or not, many were modified to remove the flawed emission control systems and shipped to Viet Nam. So if you ever visit Vietnam and wonder why there are so many 2010-2012 International tractors there pulling trailers, you now know why.
An interesting business story about how a bad CEO can single-handedly trash a company.

Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Mastershake340] #2997910
12/23/21 03:39 PM
12/23/21 03:39 PM
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new jersey usa
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11secdart Offline
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Thats interesting ! ...sure answers a lot of questions as to why it wasn't a good truck... also answers why the service dept. at the dealership was always so busy at the time every repair took weeks. The International ( I think it was an 2018 ) they got after the 2010 was a lot better truck.

Last edited by 11secdart; 12/23/21 03:40 PM.

68 Dart 367/904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
20 Acura RDX
16 Honda HRV
Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: 11secdart] #2998091
12/23/21 11:54 PM
12/23/21 11:54 PM
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Posts: 25,048
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Just here for the popcorn

I can't say much, given what I do for Peterbilt and PACCAR, but we have opinions. scope biggrin


Originally Posted by theraif
yah that would work Nikola says that the truck can charge from 10 to 80 percent in two hours claims can travel up to 500 miles. also Last year, founder and executive chairman Trevor Milton stepped down amid fraud investigations



The original post is referencing two different powertrains. The charging from 10-80% in 2-hours comment is referring to the TRE, all-electric battery powered. The 500mi range comment is related to hydrogen fuel-cell powertrain.

Last edited by GoodysGotaCuda; 12/24/21 12:02 AM.

1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
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Re: some info on the Nikola Semi Truck [Re: Mastershake340] #2998457
12/25/21 07:31 PM
12/25/21 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,997
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline
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Back when I was the national sales manager for a major aftermarket exhaust manufacturer - around 2009, we made a very memorable call on a large class-8 fleet in Wisconsin. We got involved with talking to the maintenance manager of the fleet, then a bunch of mechanics joined in - people with hands-on real world info. They had all newer stuff - from every brand: Petes, Kenworths, Freightshakers, Macks, & Navistar. This was during the height of the Cascadia vs. Pro Star era - FLEET power units. EVERYBODY was talking about what POS these new emissions trucks were - SO many things wrong. Plugging DPF's, needing to regen all the time, excessive underhood heat talking out wiring, vacuum lines, components, fans, switches, all of them constantly throwing codes, etc. It was a real mess.

I finally asked this group of all the different power units they were using, which one was the "best?" It was pretty unanimous: Navistar Pro Stars. Everything else was junk according to them - worst one was Mack. They said the Macks were at the dealership more than they were on the road. To me, this was a defining moment for the trucking industry. Moving forward in the name of environmentalism. Lots of new technology, but not enough positive results to justify the leap of faith. And yet here we are - now trying to develop & iron-out a whole new type of power - electric. As told to me just this past August by a friend & longtime Chrysler engineer, he said the biggest problem he sees moving forward with EV's is FIRE. He said the biggest problem he sees is that the batteries used to store the juice can combust at any time, & for no apparent reason. He said if you have an electric vehicle & you park it in your garage, you are crazy. He also said that Chrysler is ceasing all engineering efforts on gas-powered vehicles after the end of 2022 & all development efforts will transition to electric vehicles. He said he wants no part of that because he feels it is going to be a big failure - that's when he is going to retire. 2022...............welcome to the brave new world.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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