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Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE #2995515
12/15/21 02:21 PM
12/15/21 02:21 PM
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Posts: 2,841
Calgary, Alberta Canada
a12rag Offline OP
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a12rag  Offline OP
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Well, here it is . . .

https://www.engadget.com/toyota-key-fob-remote-start-function-requires-subscription-111606852.html

From 2018 model year on, if you have a Toyota with factory remote start - gonna charge you $8/mth or $80/yr, in order for that feature to work !! . . . phhhhttt . . .time for aftermarket remote start !!

The nerds have inherited the earth : Once 3G cellular is killed off, then any vehicle with over the air use of 3G, won't be able to accept anything from over the air. Maybe you can PAY to have software & hardware upgraded to 5G ?!?! . . . look out !

Happy Wednesday !

Cheers

Mark

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: a12rag] #2995539
12/15/21 03:22 PM
12/15/21 03:22 PM
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Star Idaho
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67vertman Offline
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Yeah it is getting crazy. I have heard that they also want to make their computer (ECU) propitiatory to them and not to others, so the only one who could work on your car or read the computer would be the dealer.


My Monster are real!

Living within your means makes life pretty ease.
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: a12rag] #2995549
12/15/21 03:53 PM
12/15/21 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,622
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
Here to stay. In fact, Tesla (and I think BMW?) has previously deactivated options that you purchased if you end up selling the car. Not pay-as-you-go items, either. You bought the car, paid for the option like you would on any other car, but you sell the car, and they deactivate it.


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

DBAP
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: a12rag] #2995557
12/15/21 04:13 PM
12/15/21 04:13 PM
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Posts: 761
CO
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Redbird Offline
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Manufacturers are working to be the only ones that can work on new cars.

Reference windshields. With the advent of self correcting steering and the sensors in the windshield. New cars are not very friendly to the local Novis shop that sets up in your driveway. Sensors need to be calibrated. Good by $ 275 dollar replacement jobs.

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: 67vertman] #2995571
12/15/21 04:47 PM
12/15/21 04:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 796
Central Michigan
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nuthinbutmopar Offline
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Central Michigan
Originally Posted by 67vertman
Yeah it is getting crazy. I have heard that they also want to make their computer (ECU) propitiatory to them and not to others, so the only one who could work on your car or read the computer would be the dealer.


John Deere has been fighting this fight for years in ag and heavy equipment. Automotive "Right-to-repair" laws in many states have prevented this, but as long as it's not necessary to operate the vehicle, they may have a loophole.

Wikipedia "Electronics Right To Repair"

Last edited by nuthinbutmopar; 12/15/21 04:48 PM.
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #2995578
12/15/21 05:10 PM
12/15/21 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,275
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Why anyone would buy a new car is beyond me. tsk My 2015 is the last new vehicle I will ever buy, and the rest I have will last me for the rest of my life. I laugh at people who would buy any vehicle new... laugh2


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: Rhinodart] #2995587
12/15/21 05:31 PM
12/15/21 05:31 PM
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Posts: 7,354
Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead Offline
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Mr PotatoHead  Offline
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Super Spudsville
Not a shocker, my newest rides are 2015-s and alpha obd will do most I will ever need to do on the electronics fix side.... old enough not to have buy anything newer.


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #2995630
12/15/21 07:30 PM
12/15/21 07:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,557
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Freeport IL USA
My newest ride is an 04 model!
My old stuff has 1990s tech stuff in it. I should be good for at least the next 10 years.

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: poorboy] #2995632
12/15/21 07:36 PM
12/15/21 07:36 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,996
nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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My newest ride is a 65 Cuda.

My daily driver is a 51 Plymouth

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: a12rag] #2995696
12/16/21 01:38 AM
12/16/21 01:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,967
Trumussia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Trumussia
Originally Posted by a12rag
Well, here it is . . .

https://www.engadget.com/toyota-key-fob-remote-start-function-requires-subscription-111606852.html

From 2018 model year on, if you have a Toyota with factory remote start - gonna charge you $8/mth or $80/yr, in order for that feature to work !! . . . phhhhttt . . .time for aftermarket remote start !!

The nerds have inherited the earth : Once 3G cellular is killed off, then any vehicle with over the air use of 3G, won't be able to accept anything from over the air. Maybe you can PAY to have software & hardware upgraded to 5G ?!?! . . . look out !

Happy Wednesday !
Cheers

Mark


This corporate scam started with computer software over a decade back. Nobody/few complained. Soon it will likely IMO "infect" even say your washing machine, as it builds a life long income stream, and kills new innovation and market place improvement. It can be regulated/outlawed, if the will exists.

Kinda like when in the 40's in Germany upon boarding the cattle cars, they were told,"just put all your valuables and your bags over there, and they will be on the next train to your new home"


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: a12rag] #2995703
12/16/21 05:33 AM
12/16/21 05:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,339
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 20,339
N.E. OHIO, USA
It's still FREE if you are relatively close to the car like just about any remote start system or aftermarket system currently available. But it seems that say you work in the city and park in a parking garage a long distance (top floor of a high rise or public garage across the street) then you new a wifi/app to get your car to start so it's ready when you get there in 5-10 minute walk. Nothing new with paying for an app shruggy

Toyota lets you start vehicles like the RAV 4 PHEV remotely in two ways. One is over WiFi/LTE using its Remote Connect apps that cost $8 per month or $80 per year. The other is by using the key fob, which requires that you be relatively close to the vehicle.

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: A12] #2995706
12/16/21 06:11 AM
12/16/21 06:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,339
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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N.E. OHIO, USA
Also nothing new with "paying" to have a dealer install an "option" or feature on motorcycles now. Motorcycle manufactures are charging, on some lower than top of the line models, where some features are baked into the original selling (MSRP) price for things like self canceling turn signals, addition of heated grips and heated seats, remapping for aftermarket or manufacture accessory (legal) exhaust system. Would you really expect to get your car tuned or re-jetted by a dealer or even a performance shop for free? As for the "Right to Repair" that's an issue that I'm behind as far as protecting the mechanics and dealers that pay to be a franchised dealer and have to pay their bills and their mechanics and their manufacture's spent lots and lots of time to develope certain aspects of their product so why should they give it away free? Harley Davidson has had to deal with this for decades with local non-Harley repair shops hanging a Harley-Davidson sign out front of some old gas station bike shop. Then when they screw up someone's bike on a repair or tune up they don't get the bad reputation for the botched repair and $#!t running Harley Davidson does. You can still do 99.9% of the repairs and adjustments without the factory data or special electronic equipment and JD, Harley, Honda, Chrysler, etc., are NOT going to hand over data and the programs they spent millions of dollars to develop for free so their dealers could make an income and protect their franchised business. Funny how my best friend had to pay Snap-On a fee of around $600 to update his Snap-On OBD scan tool.......I said you could go to Autozone and pick up a scan tool for less than a hundred bucks...........he looked at me sideways and I said "just joking" lol. No one is stopping anyone from working on anything if they want to work on something......the worst that happens is not warrantable, no free repair parts and no diagnostic tools or data for free to make the repair quick, easy, cheap and correct. The local franchised dealer gets to pay their overhead and pay their employees and the employees get to feed their familes and pay their mortgage and pay their go to work vehicle bills too. If you were a John Deere dealer you would hope that John Deere would go to bat for you to protect your franchised business that you have, in some case millions of dollars invested and in most cases for decades. Want to work on your combine you're more than welcome to do so..........just don't head over to the JD dealer and ask them to borrow their diagnostic equipment for a day or two........better to go to NAPA or Tractor Supply Company and see if they have a $100 JD combine scan tool you can borrow for free wink

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: not_a_charger] #2995711
12/16/21 06:52 AM
12/16/21 06:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,339
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Here to stay. In fact, Tesla (and I think BMW?) has previously deactivated options that you purchased if you end up selling the car. Not pay-as-you-go items, either. You bought the car, paid for the option like you would on any other car, but you sell the car, and they deactivate it.


No different (IMO) than a SiriusXM subscription or updating your onboard GPS with the latest maps. To update my wife's GPS it's over $350 and I don't know what she's paying for SiriusXM radio every year?? Apps and data are no longer free, yeah it's a new world. Used to get TV for free too (I think local still is free???), damn that DirecTV bill just won't go away every month.

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: A12] #2995712
12/16/21 06:52 AM
12/16/21 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,622
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Posts: 18,622
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
A recurring fee is new, compared to paying for the option once. Deactivating an option is also new. No one's complaining about paying for an option. They're complaining because they shouldn't have to pay for it every month, and they shouldn't lose the value created by purchasing it when that option is deactivated upon sale/trade in of the car.


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

DBAP
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: not_a_charger] #2995714
12/16/21 06:58 AM
12/16/21 06:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,339
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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N.E. OHIO, USA
Mike what are some of these options that are being deactivated ?

Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: not_a_charger] #2995718
12/16/21 07:22 AM
12/16/21 07:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,337
Fort Worth, Texas
3hundred Offline
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Posts: 9,337
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
A recurring fee is new, compared to paying for the option once. Deactivating an option is also new. No one's complaining about paying for an option. They're complaining because they shouldn't have to pay for it every month, and they shouldn't lose the value created by purchasing it when that option is deactivated upon sale/trade in of the car.


I'm pretty sure this is a service very similar to Onstar or Sirius Guardian/Uconnect? Your key fob still remote starts, but your remote app is a paid service after the trial period?


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold RIP bawling
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: 3hundred] #2995722
12/16/21 07:48 AM
12/16/21 07:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,657
South Lyon, MI.48178
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kwhmopar1 Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,657
South Lyon, MI.48178
Originally Posted by 3hundred
I'm pretty sure this is a service very similar to Onstar or Sirius Guardian/Uconnect? Your key fob still remote starts, but your remote app is a paid service after the trial period?


The way the article is written, you will lose the ability for the fob to remote start the vehicle.

"Toyota lets you start vehicles like the RAV 4 PHEV remotely in two ways. One is over WiFi/LTE using its Remote Connect apps that cost $8 per month or $80 per year. The other is by using the key fob, which requires that you be relatively close to the vehicle.

Unless they read the fine print, however, owners may not have known that the key fob method was also part of the Remote Connect subscription. Toyota confirmed to The Drive that you'll need a paid subscription on every 2018 and newer Toyota model to use the function."


Junk is something you throw away just before you need it.
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: kwhmopar1] #2995730
12/16/21 08:09 AM
12/16/21 08:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,337
Fort Worth, Texas
3hundred Offline
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3hundred  Offline
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Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by kwhmopar1
Originally Posted by 3hundred
I'm pretty sure this is a service very similar to Onstar or Sirius Guardian/Uconnect? Your key fob still remote starts, but your remote app is a paid service after the trial period?


The way the article is written, you will lose the ability for the fob to remote start the vehicle.

"Toyota lets you start vehicles like the RAV 4 PHEV remotely in two ways. One is over WiFi/LTE using its Remote Connect apps that cost $8 per month or $80 per year. The other is by using the key fob, which requires that you be relatively close to the vehicle.

Unless they read the fine print, however, owners may not have known that the key fob method was also part of the Remote Connect subscription. Toyota confirmed to The Drive that you'll need a paid subscription on every 2018 and newer Toyota model to use the function."


Well then, that's just chicksh*it

no toys.jpg

'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold RIP bawling
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: 3hundred] #2995739
12/16/21 08:41 AM
12/16/21 08:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,337
Fort Worth, Texas
3hundred Offline
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Fort Worth, Texas
I think they're missing an opportunity here...

For $8.00 monthly or $80 a year, you get ad supported access to your car, for $25 monthly you get an ad free experience, except Toyota will still collect your listening and driving history and sell it to the highest bidder. And send your speeding events to the police...with the resultant kickbacks to Toyota from the collected fines...

Buy your Toyota stock now...


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold RIP bawling
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Car Makers making you PAY subscription FEE [Re: jcc] #2995745
12/16/21 08:58 AM
12/16/21 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,714
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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MarkZ  Offline
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Posts: 3,714
Michigan
Originally Posted by jcc

This corporate scam started with computer software over a decade back. Nobody/few complained. Soon it will likely IMO "infect" even say your washing machine, as it builds a life long income stream, and kills new innovation and market place improvement. It can be regulated/outlawed, if the will exists.


iagree

Corps are moving their products over to the 'xxx as a service' business model and recurring charging you for said service. Virtually every type of software and even operating systems. This has been the wet dream of every MBA to be able to control their product through its entire life cycle - right up to the point of disposal. Never was logistically possible before the Internet became wide spread and legislation like the DMCA became law.

Last edited by MarkZ; 12/16/21 08:58 AM.

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