Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. #2993049
12/07/21 08:28 PM
12/07/21 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,471
USA
H
hudsonhornet7x Offline OP
pro stock
hudsonhornet7x  Offline OP
pro stock
H

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,471
USA
This was just announced tonight, I thought you guys might want to read about it.


265464238_2042809972547545_9094496563090535978_n.jpg
Last edited by hudsonhornet7x; 12/07/21 08:42 PM.
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2993061
12/07/21 09:14 PM
12/07/21 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Reminds me of the video of Steve Morris racing engines about water and sleeves and wet decks...


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2993130
12/08/21 08:03 AM
12/08/21 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,204
Central Pa
M
moparjim79 Offline
pro stock
moparjim79  Offline
pro stock
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,204
Central Pa
Thank you for posting this!

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: moparjim79] #2993206
12/08/21 11:12 AM
12/08/21 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,895
British Columbia
C
chrisf Offline
master
chrisf  Offline
master
C

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,895
British Columbia
mmx block...15g probably?

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: chrisf] #2993236
12/08/21 01:23 PM
12/08/21 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,471
USA
H
hudsonhornet7x Offline OP
pro stock
hudsonhornet7x  Offline OP
pro stock
H

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,471
USA
Originally Posted by chrisf
mmx block...15g probably?



Hard to say. From what I gather it is a factory 6.4 block with sleeves installed. Looks like their heads must be used with the block to make a running engine. Interesting to say the least.

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2993269
12/08/21 03:25 PM
12/08/21 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,069
Wichita
G
GY3 Offline
master
GY3  Offline
master
G

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,069
Wichita
Have a friend getting one of the first Dart Gen III Hemi blocks.

Should be interesting.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: GY3] #2993413
12/08/21 10:05 PM
12/08/21 10:05 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by GY3
Have a friend getting one of the first Dart Gen III Hemi blocks.

Should be interesting.


Any idea on the price for the Dart?


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: Dragula] #2993553
12/09/21 10:45 AM
12/09/21 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Romulus, MI
GTS340 Offline
mopar
GTS340  Offline
mopar

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Romulus, MI
Originally Posted by Dragula
Originally Posted by GY3
Have a friend getting one of the first Dart Gen III Hemi blocks.

Should be interesting.


Any idea on the price for the Dart?


https://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31612211/10002/-1

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: GTS340] #2993830
12/09/21 08:21 PM
12/09/21 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12,440
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
I'm tired...Very tired.
larrymopar360  Offline
I'm tired...Very tired.

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12,440
Central Florida
Wow. Now how to upgrade EVERYTHING else to handle that power.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: GTS340] #2994379
12/11/21 03:12 PM
12/11/21 03:12 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by GTS340
Originally Posted by Dragula
Originally Posted by GY3
Have a friend getting one of the first Dart Gen III Hemi blocks.

Should be interesting.


Any idea on the price for the Dart?


https://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31612211/10002/-1


Was hoping for chevy $3200 pricing, but $3900 isn't bad....471 cubes at 12:1 compression would make a pretty nasty engine.


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: Dragula] #2994548
12/12/21 09:22 AM
12/12/21 09:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
Dart had an unfinished block on display at PRI. Looked pretty stout. Only thing I didn't like was it had Chevy style 4 bolt main caps. The #2,3,4 were splayed outer bolts with no side bolts. Unless it was a prototype I don't see why they wouldn't do the bottom end like a KB block. The architecture is already there. AFR and Muscle Motor Extreme are coming out with heads. Was hoping for someone else to come out with rockers but did not see anything new. Jesel and T&D.

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: fbs63] #2994553
12/12/21 09:32 AM
12/12/21 09:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
Something to think about for the guys who want taller deck blocks. The way the cam and lifter bores are arranged on the new Hemi's would require a lifter angle change if the deck was taller. If the lifter angle was not changed you would have to clearance the heads for pushrods so much they would end up in the water jackets or ports. Head castings could be re-cored to have material in the pushrod tube areas. Changed lifter angle means different cam cores. Intake manifolds would be different. Just food for thought.

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: fbs63] #2994632
12/12/21 12:47 PM
12/12/21 12:47 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,053
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by fbs63
Dart had an unfinished block on display at PRI. Looked pretty stout. Only thing I didn't like was it had Chevy style 4 bolt main caps. The #2,3,4 were splayed outer bolts with no side bolts. Unless it was a prototype I don't see why they wouldn't do the bottom end like a KB block. The architecture is already there. AFR and Muscle Motor Extreme are coming out with heads. Was hoping for someone else to come out with rockers but did not see anything new. Jesel and T&D.



Goes back to Steve Morris.....He is of the same thinking in that the 90* cross bolts the KB blocks use do little against the direction of the load on the caps.I think you will see more aftermarket blocks like this as they have proven good to +2khp already...


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2995016
12/13/21 05:33 PM
12/13/21 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,745
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,745
Kalispell Mt.
Is there anything like this where you can just run a 4.25 piston without quiite as long stroke and funky heads required?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: HotRodDave] #2995085
12/13/21 08:14 PM
12/13/21 08:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
4.460 bore center minus 4.250 bore leaves .210 between bores. Not good unless its already a siamese bore block. Even then its pushing it. Darton offered sleeves for a 6.1 for a while but I know it wasn't 4.250 bore.

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: fbs63] #2995153
12/14/21 06:32 AM
12/14/21 06:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,852
Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline
master
STEFF  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,852
Smyrna, South Carolina
Originally Posted by fbs63
Was hoping for someone else to come out with rockers but did not see anything new. Jesel and T&D.


What more do you need? They have the market covered. The only reason most want anything different is because of price point and I don't see that changing, unless it comes from overseas. Rockers for Gen 3 Hemi's (or any Hemi for that matter) aren't cheap to make, due to the amount of machining, hence the cost of the current offerings. When I was working on my own Rocker design, I found that out first hand.

Last edited by STEFF; 12/14/21 06:35 AM.
Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: STEFF] #2995167
12/14/21 07:26 AM
12/14/21 07:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,722
NW Indiana
Originally Posted by STEFF
Originally Posted by fbs63
Was hoping for someone else to come out with rockers but did not see anything new. Jesel and T&D.


What more do you need? They have the market covered. The only reason most want anything different is because of price point and I don't see that changing, unless it comes from overseas. Rockers for Gen 3 Hemi's (or any Hemi for that matter) aren't cheap to make, due to the amount of machining, hence the cost of the current offerings. When I was working on my own Rocker design, I found that out first hand.


Ya, I know. But one can hope. I really like the individual shaft set ups. Just have to save my pennies!🤣

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: fbs63] #2996332
12/18/21 07:09 AM
12/18/21 07:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
R
Ray408G3Hemi Offline
member
Ray408G3Hemi  Offline
member
R

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
Originally Posted by fbs63
4.460 bore center minus 4.250 bore leaves .210 between bores. Not good unless its already a siamese bore block. Even then its pushing it. Darton offered sleeves for a 6.1 for a while but I know it wasn't 4.250 bore.


Ric3xrt has been doing LS and R5 sleeves in to the BGE and 6.1 blocks since 2016....finally some one else caught on

Dartons 6.1 M.I.D sleeves were designed to go 4.155, which leaves .192 of wall left.

A few years back Ric had one with the Darton mid system, bored to 4.25 , leaves .145 of cylinder wall left , the test mule ran a real short stroke, was between 389-392CI. ran 6.5XX length rods , Idea was to keep the side load down , block had a little bit of hard block to help keep it stiff. I know he's done 2 or 3 with a 4.20 bore and 4.25 stroke, once with a 4.30. and one with a 4.40 winberg crank , the 516ci mule is a billet block with a 4.40 winberg

The Darton LS2/3/7 will work, need to trim the bottom , with the LS sleeve you have more side wall left, .220 if I remember @4.20 bore , I know at his old job they did a few 4.32 bore LS7s with the Darton sleeve and 1 G3 BGE 4.32 bore , paper thin wall , jacket was full of hard block.


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: Ray408G3Hemi] #2996349
12/18/21 09:17 AM
12/18/21 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Romulus, MI
GTS340 Offline
mopar
GTS340  Offline
mopar

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Romulus, MI
Originally Posted by Ray408G3Hemi
Originally Posted by fbs63
4.460 bore center minus 4.250 bore leaves .210 between bores. Not good unless its already a siamese bore block. Even then its pushing it. Darton offered sleeves for a 6.1 for a while but I know it wasn't 4.250 bore.


Ric3xrt has been doing LS and R5 sleeves in to the BGE and 6.1 blocks since 2016....finally some one else caught on

Dartons 6.1 M.I.D sleeves were designed to go 4.155, which leaves .192 of wall left.

A few years back Ric had one with the Darton mid system, bored to 4.25 , leaves .145 of cylinder wall left , the test mule ran a real short stroke, was between 389-392CI. ran 6.5XX length rods , Idea was to keep the side load down , block had a little bit of hard block to help keep it stiff. I know he's done 2 or 3 with a 4.20 bore and 4.25 stroke, once with a 4.30. and one with a 4.40 winberg crank , the 516ci mule is a billet block with a 4.40 winberg

The Darton LS2/3/7 will work, need to trim the bottom , with the LS sleeve you have more side wall left, .220 if I remember @4.20 bore , I know at his old job they did a few 4.32 bore LS7s with the Darton sleeve and 1 G3 BGE 4.32 bore , paper thin wall , jacket was full of hard block.


Were they Darton MID sleeves for LS2/3/7??
If so what did they do to accommodate the difference in bore spacing?
LS has 4.400 bore spacing, so at 4.32 bore that leaves .08 between bores, .040 wall thickness per sleeve, what did they do for head gaskets in this type of build?

Re: 500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon. [Re: GTS340] #2996656
12/19/21 07:46 AM
12/19/21 07:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
R
Ray408G3Hemi Offline
member
Ray408G3Hemi  Offline
member
R

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 194
Springtown Pa
Originally Posted by GTS340
Originally Posted by Ray408G3Hemi
Originally Posted by fbs63
4.460 bore center minus 4.250 bore leaves .210 between bores. Not good unless its already a siamese bore block. Even then its pushing it. Darton offered sleeves for a 6.1 for a while but I know it wasn't 4.250 bore.


Ric3xrt has been doing LS and R5 sleeves in to the BGE and 6.1 blocks since 2016....finally some one else caught on

Dartons 6.1 M.I.D sleeves were designed to go 4.155, which leaves .192 of wall left.

A few years back Ric had one with the Darton mid system, bored to 4.25 , leaves .145 of cylinder wall left , the test mule ran a real short stroke, was between 389-392CI. ran 6.5XX length rods , Idea was to keep the side load down , block had a little bit of hard block to help keep it stiff. I know he's done 2 or 3 with a 4.20 bore and 4.25 stroke, once with a 4.30. and one with a 4.40 winberg crank , the 516ci mule is a billet block with a 4.40 winberg

The Darton LS2/3/7 will work, need to trim the bottom , with the LS sleeve you have more side wall left, .220 if I remember @4.20 bore , I know at his old job they did a few 4.32 bore LS7s with the Darton sleeve and 1 G3 BGE 4.32 bore , paper thin wall , jacket was full of hard block.


Were they Darton MID sleeves for LS2/3/7??
If so what did they do to accommodate the difference in bore spacing?
LS has 4.400 bore spacing, so at 4.32 bore that leaves .08 between bores, .040 wall thickness per sleeve, what did they do for head gaskets in this type of build?



Yes Darton LS2/3/7 sleeves, I asked once about bore spacing , his reply is ," you just move it to what you need silly" , with the M.I.D system your basically cutting the deck out of the block, the end result is a piston guided thrust set up, 4.5 bore spacing Billet Canted valve head
There were doing it for years with SBC's before the 4.5BS and 4.6BS blocks came out, When I picked up my 488 he had a 4.5 space SB2 headed 454 there

Head gasket, I keep getting this cheep Chinese accent and the quote" Ancient top fuel secret" , so I'm thinking copper gasket and "O" ring deal.

Asked him why can't we do it to a G3 and he said , "You cut the check and I'll get it done".....hence my 488 I just picked up. 4.25X4.30 , Crank is a Winberg, Thitek heads BAM 3.5inch long lifters and Jesel Rocker system. cam is in the low .800s lift want to do a Holly hi Ram but the 2x4 top doesn't fit under the cowl of the truck, so drag pak it is.

I know what the dyno says, but I'm keeping that to myself till I get some runs on the truck, will see if the track times get close to the dyno #s right now my best was a 9.59 with the 463 , that was the run that the camshaft snapped on ,right behind the 1st journal. hopping for low 9s maybe crack an 8.99. with the 488.


1963 Thunderbolt 496FE 10.80 (still a work in progress)
1968 Mustang slow a$$ 428 FE
1971 Boss 351 Mustang 11.20@115mph
1993 Lightning 10.61 @ 129mph 408Ci A3 headed NA
1996 Viper GTS
2001 Lightning 8.99 @ 155MPH 5.4 Mod Motor
2009 Ram 9.65@144MPH 463CI G3 NA
2010 Challenger 9.91 @ 139MPH 408CI G3ci NA
2019 F150 (local dealer's Lightning package) ..11.90s

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1