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Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2980892
11/02/21 12:03 PM
11/02/21 12:03 PM
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Is that 30 Lbs. the break away or rotational torque?
I do NOT use any assembly lube on any bearing surfaces tsk,
The motor runs on oil so that is what I use to assemble them, I do pre oil them using a drill motor spinning the oil pump and then spin them over on the starter with the plugs out up scope wrench twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: Cab_Burge] #2980904
11/02/21 12:19 PM
11/02/21 12:19 PM
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440Jim Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Is that 30 Lbs. the break away or rotational torque?
That is turning it as close to a constant rate as I can using a beam style torque wrench.
I always use a tacky assembly lube designed for bearings. You never know how long the engine will sit (until spring?) before you start it.

LucasAssemblyLube_3view.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2985773
11/16/21 01:23 PM
11/16/21 01:23 PM
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440Jim Offline OP
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Part 5 – Jesel Belt Drive. Build Notes

I decided to use a Jesel cam belt drive instead of the Australian unit. I didn't like the interference with the ATI SuperDamper.

My block did need a little more clearance work to fit the Jesel baseplate. Between the bolt holes at 45 degrees to the top.

Jesel_Clearance2-labels.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2985837
11/16/21 03:57 PM
11/16/21 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 440Jim
I decided to use a Jesel cam belt drive instead of the Australian unit. I didn't like the interference with the ATI SuperDamper.

My block did need a little more clearance work to fit the Jesel baseplate. Between the bolt holes at 45 degrees to the top.


Just looked at pictures of my INDY block, and it doesn't have the oil boss, and it looked like it was clearanced at the top of the cover like yours just a bit.

Good write up Jim.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: JERICOGTX] #2985912
11/16/21 08:52 PM
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Jesel provides steel shims with 6 bolt holes to go under their thrust plate/seal in this picture. They are used to set cam end play. Done.

Jesel_CamEndplay-shims.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2985937
11/16/21 09:40 PM
11/16/21 09:40 PM
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New Smyrna Beach FL
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Looks very nice

Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2986340
11/18/21 08:40 AM
11/18/21 08:40 AM
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440Jim Offline OP
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Jesel installation complete.
I did one cam degree check after installation and it was good.
Today I will "map" the cam at several installed positions (+2, 0, -2) for lobe lift near TDC. I use that to know how piston to valve clearance will change if I change cam degree later.

Step10-pic-Chrysler.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2986341
11/18/21 08:48 AM
11/18/21 08:48 AM
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HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted by 440Jim
Jesel installation complete.
I did one cam degree check after installation and it was good.
Today I will "map" the cam at several installed positions (+2, 0, -2) for lobe lift near TDC. I use that to know how piston to valve clearance will change if I change cam degree later.

Hey Jim! I'm assuming this pic has the ICL about where you want it to be? If so, Jesel hasn't changed the indexing on the cam pulley. Every Jesel I have seen true "0" shows-up retarding, if that makes sense!?

Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: HardcoreB] #2986438
11/18/21 01:13 PM
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440Jim Offline OP
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Hey Jim! I'm assuming this pic has the ICL about where you want it to be? If so, Jesel hasn't changed the indexing on the cam pulley. Every Jesel I have seen true "0" shows-up retarding, if that makes sense!?
No, that was the starting point for today's ton of measurements. Two degrees retarded is the last place I expect to leave it, so I start there and change it for all my measurements.

Part 5 – Cam Mapping. Build Notes
This morning I completed mapping the cam lobe events at three positions. Every mark on the Jesel did result in 2 crankshaft degrees change in timing (within measurement tolerance).
The cam card recommends 111 deg intake, 115 deg exhaust (113 LSA). I call that 2 degrees actual advance. When I set the Jesel marks to +2 advanced, this is what I measured.
It might be more information than most people want... Many should just look at the measurements at 0.050" lobe lift.

The way I look at it and the way this cam is ground, to get the intake lobe centerline at 113 ATC ("true zero"), the Jesel would be set at 1/4 deg retarded.
When I did these measurements with the Jesel at the zero mark, I came up with the intake lobe centerline 112.75 ATC (at 0.050" tappet lift).

I might set it at +4 this afternoon, just for more piston to valve information. But I don't plan to run it there based on these measurements.

CamMapping+2deg.jpg
Last edited by 440Jim; 11/19/21 11:32 AM. Reason: Added "true zero" comment

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2986453
11/18/21 02:11 PM
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For What Its Worth (FWIW),
With the cam's 113 LSA, I expect to run the intake lobe timing between 109 and 113 ATC.
I call that +4 degrees advanced to +0 (no advance).


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2986606
11/18/21 09:08 PM
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some great info here should dyno big numbers! up

Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: dart9ss] #2986916
11/19/21 05:01 PM
11/19/21 05:01 PM
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Part 5 – Piston to Valve Clearance. Build Notes
Here is the piston to valve clearance I measured.

The ICON piston specs are:
Intake Valve Depth/Dia: 0.320 / 2.526
Exhaust Valve Depth/Dia: 0.325 / 1.980

Piston2Valve_post.JPGICON_Pistons_top-post.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2986928
11/19/21 05:17 PM
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That baby has a hoop of V to P clearances up boogie


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: Cab_Burge] #2986970
11/19/21 07:38 PM
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IMO, these are big valve reliefs.
Needed for 0.800" lift and lots of duration.
Worked out fine.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2987054
11/20/21 12:59 AM
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Did you measure valve drop at TDC? I always keep track of valve drop since it gives a baseline to work against if I decide to change cams. Also, on you PV measurements are you using checking springs or the real springs? Real springs add some clearance since everything bends away from the piston.

Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: AndyF] #2987094
11/20/21 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Did you measure valve drop at TDC? I always keep track of valve drop since it gives a baseline to work against if I decide to change cams. Also, on you PV measurements are you using checking springs or the real springs? Real springs add some clearance since everything bends away from the piston.
I have never tried to push the valve down to the piston with real racing valve springs installed. As far as valve drop, I measure the cam lobe lift at TDC (and other positions) and the piston to valve clearance at TDC (and other positions); so I have the information you need to compare to other cams. See the tables I have posted.
It is nice when some cam vendors publish the lobe lift at TDC. Even though it only applies to a certain installed lobe centerline.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2987291
11/20/21 07:43 PM
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These new Pistons were cut using a piston from the old short block, same cam , same 440/1 heads cut to 62cc.
Had . 104 intake clearance at 110 cl. .140 ex at same installed centerline.

20211112_110338.jpg20211112_110256.jpg

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Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: gregsdart] #2987403
11/21/21 07:38 AM
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440Jim Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Had . 104 intake clearance at 110 cl. .140 ex at same installed centerline.
That worked out nicely. up


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: 440Jim] #2987740
11/22/21 09:03 AM
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Very interesting and informative, thanks for sharing Jim. I wouldn't have a clue how to take/do all those measurements you did.

I degree the cam to ensure it's installed where I want it. Then I check P-to-V, find the tightest spot and when using belt system, I'll check the P-to-V at +/- 4 degrees from that tightest spot incase we want to try different locations (although I've never move one after dyno and installed).


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Re: 572 B1 org Part 5 - Build Notes [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2989323
11/26/21 01:10 PM
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I hope to have progress to report tonight. Getting some work done. These roller springs are stiff compared to solid lifters... LOL
Lunch break right now.
I need to buy a new crank bolt, this is an old long one from the scavenger pile.
The good news from yesterday, the timing mark aligned perfectly at TDC check with the pointer & Super Damper. I like to verify that before I put the heads on. Easier with the dial indicator on the piston. I check timing marks at 0.050" before TDC and 0.050" after TDC... Top is halfway between. Typically around ~11 degrees each side.

ATI-Jesel_installed-ValveSprings.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
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