|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2977764
10/24/21 12:13 AM
10/24/21 12:13 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,096
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,096
Rogue River, OR
|
I agree on using a racing seat and harness if you have a roll bar/cage. Anything lees than that (stock seats and lap belts bar or no bar) and you are at the mercy of a higher power in the case of an accident. The crash tests from the 60-60s era were brutal. One of the reasons I like beating on my cars at the track. Chances of a hard, head on front end collision are much lower with no telephone poles etc. At that point you end up abiding by the rules of where you race and add safety precautions for the street use.
A few things also come into play with design of the cage too. You don't want to be under the hoop. I have seen taller guys do this when laying the seat back or using a factory bench. It is acheived with a kicked out horizonal bar in the hoop instead of running it straight across so it does it's job. Bad place to be without a helmet, padding or not.
The other problem I see with the factory flip up seats of 67 and back is that they do not lock in position. Then you see the harness bolted to the floor behind the seat just right so in an accident the seat will fold you up as both it and you torso get intiment eith the dash. My 66 b bodies both have race seats because of this.
The rules say the hoop must be higher than you helmet so definitely check that as you put it together. For sure use swing out bars unless you are really throwing the world at it lol. I also like forward bars in our unibody mopars. Cab turned me on to the idea of running them outside of the fender apron. Way easier to work on the car with the bars out of the way. What I did Awesome!
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: GY3]
#2977825
10/24/21 10:51 AM
10/24/21 10:51 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,160
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,160
Plymouth, MI
|
My CJ5 doesn't have padding. It is from 1980, though, long before everyone thought they had to have all the safety features in their driving appliances. Sweet CJ5! Still AMC powered? I've had a CJ7 and 3 Postal Jeeps, one with a 350 Chevy in it. I've rolled one of the Postal Jeeps at low speed in a parking lot. FYI, don't try to do donuts with them. lol
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2977827
10/24/21 10:57 AM
10/24/21 10:57 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,663
Wichita
GY3
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,663
Wichita
|
My CJ5 doesn't have padding. It is from 1980, though, long before everyone thought they had to have all the safety features in their driving appliances. Sweet CJ5! Still AMC powered? I've had a CJ7 and 3 Postal Jeeps, one with a 350 Chevy in it. I've rolled one of the Postal Jeeps at low speed in a parking lot. FYI, don't try to do donuts with them. lol Yep, unfortunately it is a 4 cylinder. It has sat in my 3rd garage bay for the last couple of years and I finally decided to rebuild the carb and do some maintenance. I bought it as a fix and flip but it's growing on me.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2977882
10/24/21 02:16 PM
10/24/21 02:16 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,497
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
|
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,497
Fulton County, PA
|
I agree on using a racing seat and harness if you have a roll bar/cage. Anything lees than that (stock seats and lap belts bar or no bar) and you are at the mercy of a higher power in the case of an accident. The crash tests from the 60-60s era were brutal. One of the reasons I like beating on my cars at the track. Chances of a hard, head on front end collision are much lower with no telephone poles etc. At that point you end up abiding by the rules of where you race and add safety precautions for the street use.
A few things also come into play with design of the cage too. You don't want to be under the hoop. I have seen taller guys do this when laying the seat back or using a factory bench. It is acheived with a kicked out horizonal bar in the hoop instead of running it straight across so it does it's job. Bad place to be without a helmet, padding or not.
The other problem I see with the factory flip up seats of 67 and back is that they do not lock in position. Then you see the harness bolted to the floor behind the seat just right so in an accident the seat will fold you up as both it and you torso get intiment eith the dash. My 66 b bodies both have race seats because of this.
The rules say the hoop must be higher than you helmet so definitely check that as you put it together. For sure use swing out bars unless you are really throwing the world at it lol. I also like forward bars in our unibody mopars. Cab turned me on to the idea of running them outside of the fender apron. Way easier to work on the car with the bars out of the way. What I did Easy fix is lay the hoop back. I do it on every one. Match or nearly match the angle of the seat back. The cross bar can be bent, but if you do, it has to go to 1.625" tubing. In these old cars, tall guys almost touch their head on the headliner as it is. You can get the bar tight on the roof and still have an issue. Next step is aftermarket seat and seat brackets. I've had to make seat mounts to get a person down in the car far enough to be safe. Works fine, plus takes a bunch of weight out. Jaz seats and fabricated mount vs. stock mounts and buckets took 80# out of last one I did. Put them right on the original seat mount studs. ![IMG_E5448[1].JPG](/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/440488/filename/IMG_E5448[1].JPG "Name: IMG_E5448[1].JPG
Views: 280
Size: 44.78 KB
ID: 440488") ![IMG_E5449[1].JPG](/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/440489/filename/IMG_E5449[1].JPG "Name: IMG_E5449[1].JPG
Views: 279
Size: 68.35 KB
ID: 440489")
Last edited by CMcAllister; 10/24/21 02:26 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2977920
10/24/21 04:51 PM
10/24/21 04:51 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
|
I agree on using a racing seat and harness if you have a roll bar/cage. Anything lees than that (stock seats and lap belts bar or no bar) and you are at the mercy of a higher power in the case of an accident. The crash tests from the 60-60s era were brutal. One of the reasons I like beating on my cars at the track. Chances of a hard, head on front end collision are much lower with no telephone poles etc. At that point you end up abiding by the rules of where you race and add safety precautions for the street use.
A few things also come into play with design of the cage too. You don't want to be under the hoop. I have seen taller guys do this when laying the seat back or using a factory bench. It is acheived with a kicked out horizonal bar in the hoop instead of running it straight across so it does it's job. Bad place to be without a helmet, padding or not.
The other problem I see with the factory flip up seats of 67 and back is that they do not lock in position. Then you see the harness bolted to the floor behind the seat just right so in an accident the seat will fold you up as both it and you torso get intiment eith the dash. My 66 b bodies both have race seats because of this.
The rules say the hoop must be higher than you helmet so definitely check that as you put it together. For sure use swing out bars unless you are really throwing the world at it lol. I also like forward bars in our unibody mopars. Cab turned me on to the idea of running them outside of the fender apron. Way easier to work on the car with the bars out of the way. What I did Easy fix is lay the hoop back. I do it on every one. Match or nearly match the angle of the seat back. The cross bar can be bent, but if you do, it has to go to 1.625" tubing. In these old cars, tall guys almost touch their head on the headliner as it is. You can get the bar tight on the roof and still have an issue. Next step is aftermarket seat and seat brackets. I've had to make seat mounts to get a person down in the car far enough to be safe. Works fine, plus takes a bunch of weight out. Jaz seats and fabricated mount vs. stock mounts and buckets took 80# out of last one I did. Put them right on the original seat mount studs. With my Kirkeys my butt is almost on the floor, 1” or 2” at the max. Still see out the front ok. Of course my seat brackets aren’t as nice as those by a long shot.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 10/24/21 04:54 PM.
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2977956
10/24/21 07:16 PM
10/24/21 07:16 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
|
For those thinking about stiffening or modifying a cage, the most important factors are:
1. Tube diameter (not material, or wall thickness). Even adding 1/4" has a huge effect, far more than a direct comparison of new vs. old. Example, other variable removed: replacing a 1-3/4" tube with 2" (only 1/8" less space around it, and 1/8" closer to the interior), which looks like +14.3%, instead adds 53% to the bending resistance (and only 15% to the weight).
2. The longest unsupported tube length (between points of attachment with no intersections). Length is the enemy of stiffness, a 4' tube divided into 2 each 2' tubes (make triangles) is a 700% improvement. Even attaching a strut close to one end (making 1 piece 1' and the other 3') adds 137%.
Boffin Emeritus
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: polyspheric]
#2978051
10/24/21 11:14 PM
10/24/21 11:14 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
A pet peeve of mine, is when using dual front aftermarket racing seats, is installing them effectively inline, unless I am competitively rally racing, the last thing I want in my normal field of view is a passenger bug eyed, additionally, I want their butt, weight wise as far back and as low as possible. If they buy the car, they can get driver seat. Track cars often require dual seats for check out driver/instructor.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: roll bar in a street car?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2978236
10/25/21 02:03 PM
10/25/21 02:03 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
|
"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
|
CM, in the seat mount photo, what size is the tubing ? as for an adjuster, i was contemplating using one from a minivan. they are light, low, and have a simple lift bar in the front for adjusting. the passenger seat will be a permanent/non-adjustable mount as far back as possible, with the back attached to the crossbar, which is straight. my only concern is the back brace for the driver's seat back will need to be [slightly] adjustable as well. any ideas or suggestions ? TIA as always !  
|
|
|
|
|
