Do any of you get away with running mid 10 second passes at the drag strip with out a roll bar? my car is primarily a street car that i take to the track a couple times a year. what are your thoughts about roll bars in street cars. I see there are several newer challengers that are that fast and faster and are not required to have roll bars.

what are your thoughts about roll bars in street cars.

If you want to go fast at the track, it is likely better to just build a "race car".

Sort of depends on what you consider a "street car".
To me a "street car" would not require a roll bar, and be something with all the seats front and rear that you can put all your friends in and cruse around in.
On the other hand there is the "Street Legal car" which is really a racing class where the car would be "Legal" to drive on the street. The Legality of "Street Legal" varies widely.
I just don't care to have to climb around roll bars (with door bars) and cages, sit in "race seats" with 5-point harnesses, and have to wear sfi spec clothing to drive a "street car".
It is not just the rollbar/cage, but all the other regulations / certs that have to be kept up to date, like belts every 3 years, if you are going to race your "street car" at a track.

If you want to go fast at the track, it is likely better to just build a "race car".

Bolt it in, take it out when not at the track

Consider this, nobody likes getting smacked on the head with a metal baseball bat.

If you think if I put foam on the bat it won't still do some damage to your skull, have at it.

Unfortunately, there is no good low risk solution for a non helmeted driver in a caged street car, no matter how belted.

Inches matter.

I ran mid 10s for a few years w/ no rollbar or anything in my cuda. Tracks down here are very different from other places...basically no tech inspection.
When I built the hemi and aimed for the 9s, I had a 10 point cage put in the car. If they're done right, the cage isn't a big deal at all. Swing out bars are nice.

Consider this, nobody likes getting smacked on the head with a metal baseball bat.

If you think if I put foam on the bat it won't still do some damage to your skull, have at it.

Unfortunately, there is no good low risk solution for a non helmeted driver in a caged street car, no matter how belted.

Inches matter.

Like I said, you can bolt it in, look at the rule book. 6” square plate bolted to floor for the hoop, down bars bolted at floor and hoop, side bars swing out that’s bolted. Problem solved till you go 9.99 then you have a race car, period.

I have had both and like some said its nice not to be in the way. if you want to actually want to use the back seat how do they get in it. the cage if fine long as there only 2 of you.

Like I said, you can bolt it in, look at the rule book. 6” square plate bolted to floor for the hoop, down bars bolted at floor and hoop, side bars swing out that’s bolted. Problem solved till you go 9.99 then you have a race car, period.

I have had both and like some said its nice not to be in the way. if you want to actually want to use the back seat how do they get in it. the cage if fine long as there only 2 of you.

"get away with" is purely at the tracks discretion, neither NHRA or IHRA would condone it as it violates their Rules and has potential to effect their liability and insurability (track and sanctioning body). And to answer your question, at my local track I have seen an occasionally on the first never on the second pass. The sanctioning bodies are very concerned with chassis/roll bar with this type of infraction.

This is taken from the 2021 NHRA rule book general regulations. It looks like the cross bars and rear bars definitely need to be welded to the main hoop. Be tough to get it in and out of the car if bolted to the plates on the floor.

4:10 ROLL BAR
All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear, or side, of the
driver’s head, extend in height at least 3 inches above the
driver’s helmet with driver in normal driving position or be within
1 inch of the roof/headliner in the area above the driver’s helmet,
and be at least as wide as the driver’s shoulders or within 1 inch
of the driver’s door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or
cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces
must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar
and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 inches
from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be
welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on driver’s
side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the
shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars
must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing
and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must
be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above, the
driver’s shoulders or to side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame
must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame; installation of
frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame;
therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the
frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheeltubs
permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x .125-inch
steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with
at least four 3/8-inch bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to
rocker sill area with .125-inch reinforcing plates, with plates
welded completely. Also, the roll bar may be welded to frame
connectors that are fully welded in place and are 1 5/8 inches
x .118-inch MS or .083-inch CM round and/or 2 inch x 2 inch
x .058 MS or CM rectangular. All 4130 chromoly tube welding
must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel
welding must be done by approved MIG wire feed or approved
TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity.
6” max
All cars with an OEM frame must
have roll bar attached to frame.
Cars without frame use 6” square
1/8” steel plates on top and
bottom of floor, securely bolted
together with at least four 3/8”
bolts, or top plate welded to
rocker sill.
All materials must be 1 3/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .083”
4130 chromoly tubing, except A, which is
1 1/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .065” 4130 chromoly tubing.
5” max
4:10
A
Maximum of 6”
from roll bar to
driver’s helmet.
Maximum of 5”
from top of roll
bar to brace.
Section 21, page 22 General Regulations
Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration. Roll bar must
be padded anywhere driver’s helmet may contact it while in
driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4-
inch compression or meet SFI Spec 45.1. All cars running 9.99
(*6.39) or quicker, SFI Spec 45.1 mandatory.

I guess you guys crying about safety and a roll bar in the passenger compartment have never ridden in a Jeep?!

To be fair though, the cages in Jeeps and Broncos and other similar offroad vehicles are much further away from your head than a rollbar in a passenger car, and are also padded in the critical spots.

That being said, I've had a rollbar in a fox mustang before though and I never really worried about it. It's just a risk I'm willing to accept. I may eventually put a 6pt bar in my Fury but for now I haul enough people around in it that I don't want them to have to climb around the bars to get to the backseat.

Another question: I haven't installed my subframe connectors yet. If I put in a 6-pt. roll bar, are the connectors still useful?

Absolutely! They make a world of difference in a uni-body car!

If a track allows anything other than this to slide, it's between the "tech" guy, the track owner and his insurance company, if he has insurance. You can run there if you like. I have in the past and saw people get hurt over some dumba$$ stuff.

My CJ5 doesn't have padding. It is from 1980, though, long before everyone thought they had to have all the safety features in their driving appliances.

I like it, I had 73 CJ5

"frame connectors that are fully welded in place and are 1 5/8 inches x .118-inch MS or .083-inch CM round and/or 2 inch x 2 inch x .058 MS or CM rectangular"

I don't understand this. The connector provides vertical bending resistance.
The 2" rectangular is much stiffer than the 1-5/8" tube.

I fail to see the engineering that requires the rear tube to be welded to the hoop. A bolt-together design might be more expensive, complex, and heavy but easily made stronger than a weld. One method would be a flange-to-tube section welded to each of the main and rear, with a removable flanged tube between them. The attachment to both tubes passes already, and the shear strength at the flanges can be met by sizing the bolt area.
The welded area is the contact surface is (OD + ID ÷ 2) of the smaller tube × Pi × wall thickness. A 1-3/4" × .120" tube welded seam is .614 sq. in. 4 × 1/2" bolts provide .785".

Please: I'm OLD! Correct my errors, please.

I see the part in the rules where it says the rear down bars have to be welded to the hoop.
What I don't see is anything saying they must be one continuous piece of tubing. Make it bolt together say a foot from the hoop and carry the rule book with you. Done right it may be the strongest part of the cage. For sure it will be stronger than front swing out bars.

"frame connectors that are fully welded in place and are 1 5/8 inches x .118-inch MS or .083-inch CM round and/or 2 inch x 2 inch x .058 MS or CM rectangular"

I don't understand this. The connector provides vertical bending resistance.
The 2" rectangular is much stiffer than the 1-5/8" tube.

Please: I'm OLD! Correct my errors, please.

I agree, larger diameter is much better, but very difficult to live with in the car.
I limit my remarks to a single point of attachment, in which bending allows collapse of the adjacent tubes.

A properly designed chassis is a series of triangles.

To your other comments...I'm certain engineers who are very familiar with the chassis in question, and the forces involved in accidents, are involved in the establishment of these specs and rules. Chassis builders, OE factory engineers, safety experts, sophisticated CAD and analysis, etc. Fuel cars, Pro Stock, NASCAR, Big bucks. That all filters down to the lower classes.

Unfortunately, it usually takes someone being killed to cause a serious look at the cars in question and get them updated.

Absolutely! They make a world of difference in a uni-body car!

If they are welded to or through the floor!!

Do any of you get away with running mid 10 second passes at the drag strip with out a roll bar? my car is primarily a street car that i take to the track a couple times a year. what are your thoughts about roll bars in street cars. I see there are several newer challengers that are that fast and faster and are not required to have roll bars.

If you can’t bend/weld a bar in yourself, find a quality shop to install a moly 8.50 cert setup. Make sure you’re at the shop when they’re measuring/cutting and welding-in the main hoop and halo so they can build it around your actual sitting position while in the car. Not sure what belts, seats you’re using, but consider Kirkey’s or seats that would not allow your body and head to flop around a lot in the event of an accident on the street, i.e, keeping your body, head from contacting the main hoop and halo. If most of your time spent in the car is on the street, then I’d install door-side swing-out bars. Lastly, unless you’re wearing some sort of head protection, no way in hell would I ever run a car on the street with a funny car cage. I personally know two guys who died from head injuries when their heads smacked their funny car cage bars on the street. They were driving normal and were hit on the driver and passenger sides of their cars. They weren’t hot-rodding or acting like hooligans, just freak accidents. If anyone were to install or currently has a funny car cage they run on the street there is a company that makes a helmet shaped like a baseball cap that doesn’t look too goofy. It would at least allow you to live most likely.

Another question: I haven't installed my subframe connectors yet. If I put in a 6-pt. roll bar, are the connectors still useful?

I agree on using a racing seat and harness if you have a roll bar/cage. Anything lees than that (stock seats and lap belts bar or no bar) and you are at the mercy of a higher power in the case of an accident. The crash tests from the 60-60s era were brutal. One of the reasons I like beating on my cars at the track. Chances of a hard, head on front end collision are much lower with no telephone poles etc. At that point you end up abiding by the rules of where you race and add safety precautions for the street use.

A few things also come into play with design of the cage too. You don't want to be under the hoop. I have seen taller guys do this when laying the seat back or using a factory bench. It is acheived with a kicked out horizonal bar in the hoop instead of running it straight across so it does it's job. Bad place to be without a helmet, padding or not.

The other problem I see with the factory flip up seats of 67 and back is that they do not lock in position. Then you see the harness bolted to the floor behind the seat just right so in an accident the seat will fold you up as both it and you torso get intiment eith the dash. My 66 b bodies both have race seats because of this.

The rules say the hoop must be higher than you helmet so definitely check that as you put it together. For sure use swing out bars unless you are really throwing the world at it lol. I also like forward bars in our unibody mopars. Cab turned me on to the idea of running them outside of the fender apron. Way easier to work on the car with the bars out of the way.

What I did

My CJ5 doesn't have padding. It is from 1980, though, long before everyone thought they had to have all the safety features in their driving appliances.

Sweet CJ5! Still AMC powered?

I've had a CJ7 and 3 Postal Jeeps, one with a 350 Chevy in it. I've rolled one of the Postal Jeeps at low speed in a parking lot. FYI, don't try to do donuts with them. lol

What I did

Easy fix is lay the hoop back. I do it on every one. Match or nearly match the angle of the seat back. The cross bar can be bent, but if you do, it has to go to 1.625" tubing.

In these old cars, tall guys almost touch their head on the headliner as it is. You can get the bar tight on the roof and still have an issue. Next step is aftermarket seat and seat brackets. I've had to make seat mounts to get a person down in the car far enough to be safe. Works fine, plus takes a bunch of weight out. Jaz seats and fabricated mount vs. stock mounts and buckets took 80# out of last one I did. Put them right on the original seat mount studs.