Rocker shaft shimming
#2971182
10/05/21 10:39 PM
10/05/21 10:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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What are the reasons to shim the rocker shafts? Is it for adjusting the rocker to valve tip contact point/angle or is it for other reasons? Seems odd that such a small shim could actually help anything.Thanks. Copper
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2971210
10/06/21 12:48 AM
10/06/21 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
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What are the reasons to shim the rocker shafts? Is it for adjusting the rocker to valve tip contact point/angle or is it for other reasons? Seems odd that such a small shim could actually help anything.Thanks. Copper It is a hack (or a bandaid if you prefer) from the old days. Most likely a waste of time for the parts in the picture since there wouldn't be much point in trying to correct the geometry when you have those loosy goosy stamped rocker arms floating around on the shaft. I'll attach an "old school" picture that makes a little more sense. This was an engine I worked on years ago where the customer wanted to run 906 heads and he wanted to make some RPM. We used a nodular rocker arm and then used blocks to adjust the geometry in order to narrow the wear pattern on the valve tip. It was a bunch of work and didn't really accomplish anything. Once I learned this lesson the hard way I stopped worrying about it but I had to prove to myself that it didn't matter before I could move on.
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: AndyF]
#2971213
10/06/21 01:53 AM
10/06/21 01:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707 California
BigDaddy440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
California
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Last edited by BigDaddy440; 10/06/21 01:54 AM.
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: calrobb2000]
#2971217
10/06/21 03:07 AM
10/06/21 03:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
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hi those shims are to keep the push rods from compressing the plunger too far into hyd lifters when heads and block have been milled with stock rocker assembly ! NOT .020 " plunger depth is the goal ! If you want to use stock type rocker arms ( I won't ) your going to have to use custom length pushrods to get the preload you want on the lifter cups. Don't be surprised if you need several different length pushrods to get all of the preload exactly the same We use to have to buy and use adjustable pushrods on all our builds that didn't come with adjustable rocker arms on the motor to start with to use solid lifters The other option is adjustable rockers with the proper length custom pushrod
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/06/21 03:10 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2971240
10/06/21 08:18 AM
10/06/21 08:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675 Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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hi
those shims are to keep the push rods from compressing the plunger too far into hyd lifters when heads and block have been milled with stock rocker assembly !
.020 " plunger depth is the goal !
X2 To lessen valve float for a few more rpm on a hydraulic. X3
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2971366
10/06/21 02:58 PM
10/06/21 02:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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"Correcting" the rocker geometry is a nice idea (and not significant with small errors). The real argument is not to correct them, but what is correct? Depends on what you're trying to do. 1. reduce the side thrust vector 2. create the largest "window area under the curve" of valve curtain area 3. move the window closer to a specific point of valve lift 4. move the window closer to a specific point of engine vacuum 5. achieve "mid lift", in which the stem is at 90 degrees to a line through the shaft and roller axle centers @ 50% lift
No, all of these cannot occur simultaneously.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: polyspheric]
#2971372
10/06/21 03:12 PM
10/06/21 03:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
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"Correcting" the rocker geometry is a nice idea (and not significant with small errors). The real argument is not to correct them, but what is correct? Depends on what you're trying to do. 1. reduce the side thrust vector 2. create the largest "window area under the curve" of valve curtain area 3. move the window closer to a specific point of valve lift 4. move the window closer to a specific point of engine vacuum 5. achieve "mid lift", in which the stem is at 90 degrees to a line through the shaft and roller axle centers @ 50% lift
No, all of these cannot occur simultaneously. Making the valvetrain stable & not go NUTS is what matters
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: CSK]
#2971387
10/06/21 03:41 PM
10/06/21 03:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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True, but that includes limits of size, spring pressure, stiffness (resistance to bending), etc. A perfectly aligned set of shaft rockers on a 1/2" shaft will flop around like a palm tree in a hurricane.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#2971389
10/06/21 03:46 PM
10/06/21 03:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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Thanks for posting. Please note the "crescent" shape of the B3 shims; this is extremely important. A simple curved piece of constant thickness is not only ineffective but fragile. The B3 piece shown is what you want.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: polyspheric]
#2971400
10/06/21 04:00 PM
10/06/21 04:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
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Thanks for posting. Please note the "crescent" shape of the B3 shims; this is extremely important. A simple curved piece of constant thickness is not only ineffective but fragile. The B3 piece shown is what you want. & yes I have B3's correction spacers on my junker
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker shaft shimming
[Re: Uberpube]
#2971870
10/07/21 09:04 PM
10/07/21 09:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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The B3 price is not just for small bits of metal, but includes all the R&D he put into it. You're buying his engineering.
Boffin Emeritus
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