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Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: rickraw] #2970048
10/03/21 04:23 PM
10/03/21 04:23 PM
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It's a dry heat
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Originally Posted by rickraw
That dent may have cracked the pickup tube where It’s threaded in the block. If we’re me, I’d drop the pan first. I think u need more oil capacity for a high volume pump. Stock pumps always worked for me in a street car.


Agreed.

This would MY next step.

And IMO go with a straight 30 or 40 wt oil

Is it dangerously low? No. But i wouldn't beat on it hard with it that low either until you know more about the shortblock

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: gsmopar] #2970072
10/03/21 06:35 PM
10/03/21 06:35 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Shim the pump...This is always an issue on Hemi engines.


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

G3 Ported Edelbrock Hemi Heads ready to use for sale
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Dragula] #2970101
10/03/21 08:13 PM
10/03/21 08:13 PM
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Motor City
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6PKRTSE Offline
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Originally Posted by Dragula
Shim the pump...This is always an issue on Hemi engines.


Yes, I agree. Hemi's hold so much oil up top in each rocker cover. Still should be your low oil pressure though.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Buster] #2970131
10/03/21 10:10 PM
10/03/21 10:10 PM
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Posts: 38,131
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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If someone has installed the 1970/1971 hemi and 440 6 pack 6 quart low profile oil pan you can check the oil pickup to the bottom of oil pan by removing the drain plug and use the stock oil dipstick to see if it will slide under the pickup and pan, if it does sideways, flat and not with it put in the wide way your good.
All the Mopar factory service manuals for those early Hi Po Hemi and Hi Po BB motor recommend installing the oil pickup against the bottom of th eoil pan and as flat as possible scopewrench
I don't install them against the bottom of the pan but I do use the thin width of the dipstick to make sure it is close and not bottom out flush with the pan twocents
Let us know what you find, you might want to make sure the new high volume oil pump you bought has the black high pressure spring in it and not a stock standard pressure spring in it like some of the new ones have now whiney scope
If it has the black spring try switching it into current your pump and see if that helps or not luck scope
Some racers use to try and run a stock lo po oil pump to gain a little power by reducing the power needed to spin the Hi Po pumps with the high pressure spring in them, NOT ME EVER down
I rather use 5W20Wt oil to achieve that result up scope grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Buster] #2970193
10/04/21 06:54 AM
10/04/21 06:54 AM
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Prospect, PA
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Questions:
What oil are you using now?
What is the cruise rpm that you have 25 psi?
Does it flat-line at 25 psi, or will it still climb with more rpm? if so at what pressure does it stop climbing?
What is your intended use for the car?

If the car is going to see light duty, and the pressure still climbs above 25 psi with rpm, I would not be overly concerned. I'm not necessarliy saying everything is perfect, but I don't think it needs emergency surgery. Heavier oil and a HV pump are probably reasonable next steps.

The cracked pick-up is not an uncommon occurence and a very credible item for your consideration, IMO.

Nice car by the way.












Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Dragula] #2970196
10/04/21 07:13 AM
10/04/21 07:13 AM
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VA
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Originally Posted by Dragula
Shim the pump...This is always an issue on Hemi engines.


Do you mean relief spring?

Anyone with experience were the issue was a cracked pickup, did it aerate the oil as an indicator, or undetectable from a look at the dipstick?

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2970352
10/04/21 12:09 PM
10/04/21 12:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
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central il.
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second 70 Offline
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[quote=Cab_Burge]
If it has the black spring try switching it into current your pump and see if that helps or not luck scope

Cab I have 2 HV melling pumps and both have the plain spring which I thought was the high pressure spring? Good topic for me because I believe my pressure is too high with the HV pump and plain spring. 55 idle hot with 10-30 mobile one. 75 @ 2,000 and gets as high as 95 at higher rpm's. I also have regular melling with pink-red spring and I believe it's too low never gets over 45 hot.

So I'm guessing putting the pink spring in the HV pump would lower it to 45 max too???

I thought the black spring was between the 2 but I can't find one to try. So I'm wondering do I just shim the red spring and if so how much to reach 65psi or cut plain spring to lower pressure and if so how much do I trim?

Problem this is on a hemi and pump must be removed to get to spring and the adjustable product won't fit due to motor mount.




I had a cracked tube and it would lose prime when oil level got below crack, No air bubbles.

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Buster] #2970384
10/04/21 12:44 PM
10/04/21 12:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79
Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
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Anchorage, Alaska
Originally Posted by Buster
... I have a new high volume Melling oil pump but I couldn't get it on because it wouldn't clear the motor mount. I couldn't get the motor mount out because it wouldn't clear the steering box. At that point I put a new o-ring on the pump drive shaft, put it back together and crossed my fingers. No change..
I guess I'll try to get the high volume pump on again, I'm going to loosen both motor motor mounts and lift the front of the engine with a cherry picker...


Nice car by the way! If you got a standard volume pump in and out, I would think you could get a high volume in there if you took the pump cover off. Put the pump housing and gears in place first, then bolt the cover back onto the pump. Just make sure the o-rings don't fallout of place shruggy


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: metallicareload] #2970404
10/04/21 01:34 PM
10/04/21 01:34 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Hemis came with the big pump so if it ain’t on there someone changed it out. Dent in wrong pan, first place to look for pickup damage. Every Hemi we had carried 40 psi at idle with those ‘big’ bearings. Also Try another filter. Who knows what’s been done to the engine in those first few years though. I’d have that pan off tonite.
Nice car though, I have a 66 Belvedere Hemi 4 speed trying to get together. Wish you luck and hope it’s an easy fix.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 10/04/21 01:37 PM.
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: cudaman1969] #2970411
10/04/21 01:44 PM
10/04/21 01:44 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Hemis came with the big pump so if it ain’t on there someone changed it out. Dent in wrong pan, first place to look for pickup damage. Every Hemi we had carried 40 psi at idle with those ‘big’ bearings. Also Try another filter. Who knows what’s been done to the engine in those first few years though. I’d have that pan off tonite.
Nice car though, I have a 66 Belvedere Hemi 4 speed trying to get together. Wish you luck and hope it’s an easy fix.


Huh? Hemis had their own pans and pickups but the pump itself was the same as other RB motors. I don’t think Mopar put a HV pump on any production vehicle?

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2970455
10/04/21 03:09 PM
10/04/21 03:09 PM
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VA
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dragon slayer Offline
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The did have the stronger relief valve spring. But agree not a high volume.

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: dragon slayer] #2970530
10/04/21 06:13 PM
10/04/21 06:13 PM
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Benton, IL.
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The car is almost 55 years old, and the OP said he thought it had been raced and rebuilt. What's the chances that the OE pump is still on there? But no matter what, I would start with a new high volume pump. Why guess with what is on it and what condition it's in? After changing the pump, the OP can decide if anything needs to be done about too much pressure.

IMHO, messing with the relief spring now is a waste of time because it is basically the same job to mess with the spring as it is to install a new pump and it is unlikely that the spring is the cause of low oil pressure. After finding that there is no o-ring on the shaft, I wouldn't put any more effort into that pump assembly. Just move on.


KOS
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2970534
10/04/21 06:33 PM
10/04/21 06:33 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Hemis came with the big pump so if it ain’t on there someone changed it out. Dent in wrong pan, first place to look for pickup damage. Every Hemi we had carried 40 psi at idle with those ‘big’ bearings. Also Try another filter. Who knows what’s been done to the engine in those first few years though. I’d have that pan off tonite.
Nice car though, I have a 66 Belvedere Hemi 4 speed trying to get together. Wish you luck and hope it’s an easy fix.


Huh? Hemis had their own pans and pickups but the pump itself was the same as other RB motors. I don’t think Mopar put a HV pump on any production vehicle?

. ALL of them came with the big pump (it needs the volume because of oil trapped up top). Any and all aftermarket pumps where copy’s of the factory pump. Way back in the day it was called a HEMI pump not high volume (they also came stock with the high pressure spring), you have to be at least 70 to know this stuff, lol, you’re welcome
Also in the early 70s Chrysler sold a ‘kit’ using the ‘HEMI’ rotors and drive with an aluminum spacer to install on a reg pump to make a high volume pump (still got mine if you want a pic)

Last edited by cudaman1969; 10/04/21 06:38 PM.
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: dragon slayer] #2970539
10/04/21 06:52 PM
10/04/21 06:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,284
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by dragon slayer
The did have the stronger relief valve spring. But agree not a high volume.


Yep. All RB’s got the standard pump (relief spring may have varied) from the factory.

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2970629
10/04/21 10:38 PM
10/04/21 10:38 PM
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s. e. pa.
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calrobb2000 Offline
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hi
my 68 hemi came std pump with hi psi spring !

my current 511 hemi has 60 psi hot crusin !

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: calrobb2000] #2970637
10/04/21 11:21 PM
10/04/21 11:21 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted by calrobb2000

hi
my 68 hemi came std pump with hi psi spring !

my current 511 hemi has 60 psi hot crusin !

You buy it new?

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: cudaman1969] #2970650
10/04/21 11:56 PM
10/04/21 11:56 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Well I might have to eat crow, went back into all my old DC books to double check and the original book said same pump other than black spring. I’ll check my buddies 67 GTX this week to see what it has (original as built). I just remember taking the big pump (all orange) off a blown up 68 Hemi that I picked up to install on my max wedge (in 1974). Won’t be the first time Ive been wrong.

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: cudaman1969] #2970727
10/05/21 04:05 AM
10/05/21 04:05 AM
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Super Spudsville
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Well I might have to eat crow, went back into all my old DC books to double check and the original book said same pump other than black spring. I’ll check my buddies 67 GTX this week to see what it has (original as built). I just remember taking the big pump (all orange) off a blown up 68 Hemi that I picked up to install on my max wedge (in 1974). Won’t be the first time Ive been wrong.


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #2970740
10/05/21 06:16 AM
10/05/21 06:16 AM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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Originally Posted by 68 HEMI GTS
Not the kind of engine to ignore low oil pressure on. I’d start with the oil pump as the others suggested and work from there.

x300!!!

Re: Hemi oil pressure at idle? [Re: Mr PotatoHead] #2970900
10/05/21 11:44 AM
10/05/21 11:44 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted by Mr PotatoHead
Time is hard on all of us. up



Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Well I might have to eat crow, went back into all my old DC books to double check and the original book said same pump other than black spring. I’ll check my buddies 67 GTX this week to see what it has (original as built). I just remember taking the big pump (all orange) off a blown up 68 Hemi that I picked up to install on my max wedge (in 1974). Won’t be the first time Ive been wrong.

Yep brain fade too. Service manual said 25 psi at 500 rpm also so engine is probably ok.

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