I've made a couple posts about my car already. It's a '68 Fury III (4500 pounds with me in it!!) that has an old school built 440 in it. Ported 906's, 30 over 6 pack pistons, LY rods, 590 mopar cam, TM7 intake, 850 Holley DP and 1 3/4" headers with 3.5" exhaust and flowmasters. I ran 12.40's with it last month and am going to try to get it to the track one more time this year before the season is up. I'm thinking I can maybe get another tenth or two out of it. It's also got an Ultimate converter that seems to flash around 4500, and 4.30 gears with 295 M/T drag radials. Have spent some time messing with timing and squirters, it runs pretty good at this point and at the track it hooked fine launching from 3000-ish, but it just has air shocks in the back so I assume I'm going to need caltracs and adjustable shocks if I put any more power to it.

The goal is to run 11.50's in any conditions, so probably 11.30's in good air. That needs a minimum of an 150 hp bump over where I'm at now. Whatever I do with it, I also want it to be reliable, as the goal is to run one of the drag and drive events next year. Drag Week, Midwest Drags, or Rocky Mountain Race Week.

The initial thought was to put a 200 hp plate kit on it, that should get it to where I need to be. I'll need to upgrade the fuel system, but other than that it might be ready to go. I worry a bit about durability with spraying it, but it should at least get me to the ET goal.

The other option is to spend some money on the motor and make that difference up n/a. I think the heads are the biggest restriction currently. Trick Flows look like there really is no ETA on them due to supply issues - every time I look on Summit's site the expected ship date keeps slipping. I think Indy 440 EZ's are available, but don't know if they would get me to where I need to be out of the box compared to the TF's.

The other concern is I'm not sure the small-ish headers, cam, and honestly the rotating assembly, is going to be ok to get a 446 to the 600 hp range without being suspect. I'm not an expert by any means but I'm thinking to get 600 hp out of an n/a stock displacement RB is going to require more rpm than the pistons and rods are safe to.

What are everyone's thoughts? Will a head swap get me there? Or do I really need to dive into the shortblock to get to where I need to be?

Thanks,
Nick

What's your best MPH and at what track and conditions, that will give a good idea on the HP you're making now, the 590 is a pretty good old school cam IMO.

It went 12.46 @ a little over 108 at Norwalk last month, I don't know what the DA was but it was a normal early fall midwest day, thinking low 60's for temp in the evening. The Wallace Racing calculators show between 440-460 hp based on the weight. The motor went 11.90's in a B body, 2 owners ago. It has a mechanical fan and power steering, which certainly isn't helping it.

I set the lash at 28/32 based on the original specs for the 590, and timing is at 38* with a Mr. Gasket light spring kit so it's pretty much all in at idle. I wanted to see if there was anything on the table with jetting but ran out of time, only got 2 runs in during a 5 hour T&T. Hoping for a few more and really wanted to see if jetting it up helped any.

Wow I had the same exact combination . But I had hyperutectic pistons . Any way my car ran 11.30’s and weighed 3500 , so honestly I think your running pretty well for what you have . I would have no problem spraying that combo . It won’t take 150 either . All your going to need is a .052 nitrous jet and I can almost guarantee your going to drop a second or more like nothing .

Get your self a Saturday night special plate and your set

I would buy a lighter, more modern rotating assembly, then update the heads. Even ported Eddies would have way more potential than what you have, they go over 300 easily with modest work.
Then if the above doesn't get you there, you are way better equipped to maybe spray a more modest amount( onto better parts) to reach your goal.
To me, a good shortblock is the foundation to any attempt to make even half way serious power.

Is there any way you can take some weight out of the car? 4500 lb takes a lot of power to go fast. Each 100 lb is good for a tenth...

Nothing wrong with the EZ heads. I bought through Fast [Porter Racing heads] and gained 6mph and 4 tenths by just a head swap over ported 906s. Minor bowl work back cut valves standard port. Same 590 cam as you. 446. As said b/4 eliminate weight.

My mate ran a 3150lb Dart to 10.1'@132 best with a 12.7:1 440 with LY rods I believe, had the .590 cam and MCH ported Eddy heads (320cfm), a Victor Intake and a 1050 Dom, just barely made the 600fwhp mark on Wallace with weight/mph. The block was well built in the US by the guy that raced it and he bought it over to the UK so I would think it had well prepped rods/bolts but who knows for sure. He used to turn near 6800rpm in the traps with it with his chassis combo. Lasted for approx 4 seasons here of hard racing before it blew.

So I personally don't think just a head swap would get you another 150hp with your in theory 10:1CR and that cam. I ran a similar motor to what you have in 1990 with 6pk rods/pistons, a Team G intake, 850DP, 2" f/well hdrs, ported BV 906's (260cfm) and a .650"/290@.050 SFT cam@around 9.8:1 and made 530fwhp according to Wallace for weight/mph. I turned that to 66>6700 in the traps NA and 7400 with a 175 b/shot N20 system,=660hp. I had a single external oiling system to handle the rpm. Pistons are no problem, its the rod bolts you may have that are the weak link as we know.

I think if TF heads or similar 300+cfm heads were about then apart from B1's which I couldn't afford to pull the motor and replace everything I could've got close to around 570>580hp at that low CR mainly cos of the cam. I would go with a 150 shot and see where you end up you would in theory be pulling 63>6400rpm max in the traps with your parts. So unless you want to pull the motor and go through it completely with ally heads and more comp NA that 600 no. ain't gonna happen the way I see it in reality.......my 2c's.

Sell the complete long block, build a 50X” with good heads.

Or...... spray it.

The thing the spray does besides the extra HP........ is you also get a giant boost in TQ, that you won’t get by hopping up the stock stroke engine by traditional means.
With the normal NA mods, you’ll get a little boost in TQ, but the big HP gains will be made by extending the upper part of the power curve(carry the TQ to a higher rpm).

Thanks guys!

Definitely agree the shortblock could use an upgrade. I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too. I did have the pan off a couple months ago and checked a couple rod bearings, it looked great inside, so I'm struggling to take it apart since it's a perfectly good running motor. Maybe I start buying rotating stuff now and then if I ever hurt a piston or something it gets a full rebuild.

I will have to look for spots to take weight out of it, it's a street car but I should be able to do something. Nobody makes fiberglass parts for Furies and the hood is ridiculously heavy. It has discs now but has power brakes, along with an accumulator and a vacuum pump to run them. I could ditch some weight there if I find a manual brake setup, and maybe switch it to manual steering. The subframe on C bodies looks really beefy too, not sure if I can take a holesaw to it, or maybe some interior panels or something. I did plan on pulling the hvac box. It also has 2 layers of carpet so I'll pull one of those out.

4 tenths and 6 mph from swapping to EZ's on a 446 makes sense and is encouraging but also highlights I'm definitely not going to get to 11.50's with just the head swap. Maybe I go that route and try to get some weight out of it, that'll put it into the high 11's at least, and then make up the difference with spray?

EZ's have stock plug location and exhaust ports, right? If they've got similar potential to Trick Flows, and they're available now, that might be a winner. What kind of rpm are you turning with them and the 590 cam, carnut?

Edit: 2 more responses since I started typing. Thank you. That matched my gut feeling, getting to 11.50's at the cars weight likely isn't happening without changing the rotating assembly. Or spraying it.

Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?

First thing I would look at is weight. Its free hp. What you have in the motor, every thing is very heavy. Were the heads ported using MP porting templates? Those pistons weigh a ton and probably about 9;1 comp. and the 590 MP cam sucks. But weight is your biggest problem and cheapest to solve. I had a 70' Challenger I did a full chassis on got the weight down to 2450 built a 451 low deck. Ported 906 heads with MP templates. Don't remember cam specs but was a solid roller with .625 lift and running LY rods. It ran 9.80 in Sacramento Cal. Not bragging, just an example of how much difference weight makes. If you're going to buy heads, don't waste your money unless you go with Trick Flow. If rebuilding bottom end think lighter pistons, forged and better rods. Scat makes a nice 4340 I beam rod. If your crank is a stock forged item, it will take the horse power. Just be patient and think things through. One more thought, a lighter car is much easier on your engine and transmission. Best of luck to you and your changes, and don't be afraid to ask anyone for advice.

Thanks again. The torque should help it with the car being so heavy too, so that really says it either needs some nitrous or a stroker kit. The power I'd need to get there n/a at 446" likely needs a rotating assembly that will handle more rpm than what mine is safe to.

The heads were ported in the 80's I believe and have a bunch of work done to them, they supposedly flow 263 cfm.

I only want to buy things once, so maybe a plate kit for now and then start saving up to build a completely new longblock with a 505/512 with Trick Flows or EZ's.

150 shot would put you comfortably in the 11's. Cheapest easiest route from where you're currently at.

Put it in a 1000# lighter car.

As mentioned already don't start spending yet get a plan then go hog wild. Good luck whichever direction you go

Thanks, definitely still in the planning stages, and agree- definitely only want to buy stuff once. For now I think a small plate kit is the winner, it will get me to where I want to be and shouldn't hurt anything... except maybe the trans or rearend. lol

I love the car too much to try going fast with something else.

My Charger went from consistent 12:50's @ 110 MPH, to inconsestent mid 11's @ 120 MPH with a new engine making 100+ more power. That is at Bandimere, like 9,000 ft DA in the summer.
The Charger is 4150 lbs, but a street car. It needs adjustible shocks and suspension work, and likely more tire than the 10.5x27" drag radials.
The extra power has reduced the no so great 60' times from about 1.7 to 1.8+

I shift at 6500. 391 gears 5200 convertor. A body. EZs are angle plug stock port location. Mine flow from 295@ 500 to 323@700. With more potential by opening to larger ports.

I know there are NO2 cars on drag week, but I'd think it would be a pain to keep up with bottle supply all week. Of course a full out turbo/supercharger deal that needs ice every one is a pain too. But would a 'simple' supercharger and air to air intercooler be an option? Obv it costs more than the bottle.

I've still got your 4.15 crank and the EZ heads sitting over here.
I do plan to use them in the Charger at some point though.

Thanks everybody. 451, it definitely sounds like you could benefit from more tire and some suspension work. 120 mph is hauling!

I've definitely considered other power adders. If I win the lotto, or at the very least get out of other hobbies, turboing it would be a stretch goal. But...I can't fabricate a project like that and I'd want to do it right (multiport efi, e85, turbo friendly cam, rear gear and converter, rollbar, trans brake etc), and at that point the goal would be 9.50's instead of 11.50's. lol

I do remember Monte (rip) used to fill everybody's nitrous bottles on drag week. I don't know if any other vendors do that now on the drag and drive events, but I also would expect that 2 bottles would last a whole event, with only a pass or two per day.

Nitrous will get you there if that is all you want. I will go against the grain and say get the heads you need to support the number/power you want. They will still be there and not a bottleneck if you do a serious shortblock later.

Holley was filling bottles still. I meant more in the rush of trying to decide if you need to make another pass or waiting FOREVER for your turn depending on how many oil downs there are it would be harder to manage. I imagine, as I've never had a bottle.

I built the turbo setup for my fury in my house garage, I'm sure you could do it!

Why not buy some heads that will work on a 500" stroker, but put them on the current 440, and let it run what it runs. If it isn't enough for you, build another stroker shortblock while you spray the old one.

"I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too."

If we can assume around a 60 CI increase for a cost of between $700 and $950 for a typical stroker crank, then a guy would just need
to decide if 60CI is really worth it for this application. It kind of seems like a bargain

"Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?"

It's kind of a bad idea. I did that in the late '80s to the mule 440/still together in the Polara. The reason I got away with it was....back then, Mancini was selling
production/I believe SPS rod bolts in bulk, without the direct connection blister packaging. I ended up with exactly the same bolt as stock, but new.
I don't think I would attempt this today with an ARP 8740 etc without having the rods resized....and by then you're about halfway to some middle of the road
aftermarket rods.

Maybe I am showing a tendency to repeat past mistakes, but to me the easy/fun approach is enjoy it the way it is
for now and start working on the next combination. Then when the new big bad engine is done, if everything goes well you will end up with a spare 440 to either use, sell, part out, etc.

Maybe I missed it but did anyone ask about the current converter? That's the first thing I would change.....depending on what's in it.

There's gotta be 3-400 pounds that can come out without cutting it up? I do like the car/style too but, it's really gonna take some HP to move that weight AND the weight is hard on parts. After it's as light as you can practically make it, the next best question would be how to make 5-600 streetable HP in a stock block B/RB engine. That's probably easier than cutting the weight.

clearly the answer is a 200 shot. Build engine later lol.

my coronet is like 3900 its been 1150 in good air mild 440

You need to get some weight out of the car. As mentioned, if you can get Aluminum heads I'd go for it, add a newer cam design, call and have one custom ground for you car. What are you shifting at right now? You might have too much gear.

Have you tried tighter lash? I would start by going 18 and 22 and see if the car likes it. If it doesn't like it reset the intakes and see if it just needs more on the exhaust side. What is the cam in at? Very heavy car might want the cam advanced. I would definately look for some better aluminum heads, and try and set the motor up for the max compression you want to buy fuel for.
Look for ways to lighten the car. A disc brake conversion will drop 35 lb I believe, plus it should stop better.

Very good point about changing the front end and brake components to lighter stuff. What front spindle does a c body use in those years? IIRC the rotor is thicker than a b body.

I agree that building a better/bigger short block should be on the list. If you played your cards right and bought parts off season, took advantage of sales etc. you can screw together a 15-20k engine for 10-12k. That would be starting from scratch; new water pump housing etc. You could save a few thousand reusing some of the 440 parts if needed. Whatever you do it will need a decent fuel system so maybe think of starting there.

Experiment with lash settings
Converter - I would think there are some local members that could help you out there. Is that a J converter?
Fuel system
Nitrous Kit
New engine on the cheap (accomplished by way of 50% off sales, PB&J for lunch in 2022, and brewing your own beer)

That seems easy enough : D

Thanks everybody. Lots of confirmations of what I already figured but didn't want to admit, lol.

I don't think I'm going to touch the shortblock now, especially if changing rod bolts without getting the rods resized is a bad idea. I'll just keep this motor together as is and start planning a new build, but in the meantime put a small plate kit on it to get me to where I'd like it to run. Think I'm going the Jeremiah and MoparBilly route of just y-ing the fuel solenoid off the main feed and tossing a regulator on the nitrous supply side.

Will start collecting parts for a 50x" stroker, and it seems like the Trick Flows are the way to go for heads at the 600-700 hp power level. Once they're available I'll pick up a set. Beyond that it sounds like stock blocks are suspect anyway.

The converter in the car is a 9.5" Ultimate. It flashes to ~4500 from what I've seen. The rear tires on it are just under 30" tall, to me it doesn't seem over-geared. I'm well under 6k crossing the finish line and I'm shifting a little over 6k. It sorta feels like it noses over past 6k regardless of gear. I have a 1" open spacer I want to try and also was going to go up and down with jetting the next time I get it to the track.

I do not know where the cam was installed, but I am guessing it was already advanced a couple degrees. I can ask the old owner.

I haven't considered tightening up the lash at all- can definitely experiment with that. I figured I'd just put it where the cam card suggested and run it, but will try tighter for sure.

I have put Wilwoods on the front of it already, I did that before Roadkill Nights. I can try to maybe swap the booster and vacuum pump + reservoir out for a manual brake setup but will need to find a manual brake C body to get the parts from. It has 2 layers of carpet in it, will pull one of those out along with the HVAC box. It doesn't have tailpipes. I'll have to start looking for brackets and things that can be removed or have holes drilled into, but also not be obvious about it.

Thanks,
Nick

Unless I missed it, what kind of rear end do you have? If it's hooking with all that weight, plus you'll be adding HP, you're going to start finding the weakest links in your drivetrain. You said you have Wilwood brakes, but are they rated over 4000 lbs? I've seen other companies with limits on theirs.

It's an 8 3/4 with Moser axles, and I also upgraded to a 3.5" Dynotech driveshaft with 1350 u-joints over the summer. I suspect the ring and pinion might be the next to go, at which point it'll either get an aftermarket 9" or a Dana 60. It will definitely be the next weak link in the drivetrain. I know at this weight and HP it is marginal, especially on radials. For the brakes, Wilwood didn't have a weight specification and it's a kit designed for C bodies. I have a set of '73 C body disc spindles I could've used but I can't find caliper brackets.

The trans is a 727 with a Cheetah reverse manual valve body (no low band apply) that I shift on the column. I don't ever get off and back on the gas in 1st gear, and also know if I break the rearend I'll have to pull the trans to check the sprag.

About a .660 lift roller cam

FWIW, several 'mild' engines we've had in cars that we took to a bunch of T&T sessions always seemed to like spacers. I had just a magnum 383 in my Coronet at one point and I had 2" of spacer on top of a torker intake and that was faster and if I had had any more spacers and longer bolts I still think it wanted more. It's cheap to experiment with. I whittled 1.25 seconds off the ET on that combo doing little stuff like that - biggest thing I did to it was put the torker on vs the OEM HP intake.

It shocked me just how much difference there is b/t a stock style intake and a decent aftermarket one on even a mild motor. Years ago I was trying to sort out some fitment issues and swapped an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake for a MP M1 dual plane (an aluminum version of the factory HP intake). That motor was neutered after that swap! Completely done before 5k rpm. It was just a flattop 440 w/ 906s and a 509 cam.
Sorry...I know this doesn't help the OP. Just made me think of it when I read the previous post.

I just swapped a Holley SD in place of the DP4B on my 68 GTS and it made a noticable difference in the top end. Thanks to Mr. Porter for that recommendation; I didn't realize how short that and a torker were compared to the RPM. Plenum volume is king above 5k RPM from what I am learning.

As a word of caution with the spacers make sure that the one you place on using is big enough for the throttle blades on your carb to clear. I have seen a few bent butterflies from guys not checking and just hopping in and smashing the pedal to the floor.

You should post more picture of that thing for us. I didn't realize (or forgot) it had that tall of a tire on it.

Also, I'd start looking around for a rear end housing too Again, something you car slowly put together on a budget. With the superstock theme of the car it would be awesome to have a Dana with a chrome cover sticking out underneath.

Speaking of updates, we need some current pics on your car too mister!

It currently has a TM7 for an intake on it right now. It feels super strong from ~3500 to around 6k. I'm hoping adding some spacer will pick up the upper end some, it starts to feel flat above 6 and the cam should be good to 6500. Is there any danger in home porting the intake to give it more volume? I'm definitely not afraid of a die grinder and have lots of carbides, but also don't know where I should be grinding. lol

It definitely sits high in the rear but some of it is due to tire clearance. I might have to remake the wheelhouses to get it to sit lower without rubbing with the 295's on it, or maybe go down to a 275. I love how it looks now though. Agree, it would be sweet with a chrome cover on a Dana 60 out back!

When I was trying to decide between the 295's or 315's I picked the 315's because they are shorter and a little wider, I drive a 67 B-Body and space is limited on those cars. In case you wanted a different tire to drop the back some

Figure I'd update this. I got a deal on a plate kit so I installed that over the winter, and also picked up an AEM wideband, an MSD timing retard box, and a NOS mini progressive controller. It shouldn't need the controller but I figured it can't hurt if I ever do pour your own puddle/no prep type racing with it. Going to be super conservative on timing, have the box configured to pull 8* out when the nitrous is activated, it's all automated through the progressive.

Right now the fuel side is teed off the carter mechanical pump. I know MoparBilly and others used to run plate kits on a ton of 440's with that Carter pump, we'll see how this goes. I'm going to be watching the wideband like a hawk and if it is running out of fuel on the top end I'll swap over to a dedicated fuel supply for the nitrous but for now I'll try it as is. I'm going to stick to 73 jets as the highest, really don't want to put a rollbar in the car and honestly I'm not sure the trans will live with it if it goes much faster than mid 11's either.

Excited for Milan to finally open!

More pics:

Nice! I know someone else that put the solenoids in that area...

A JAZ 1 gallon Jr. Dragster fuel cell and a small 5 psi electric pump make for a cheap supplemental if you are so inclined.

Nice, I like it!

Cool beans! Any preliminary test hits on the street yet?

Thanks guys!

GY3, I definitely copied the idea from you, although if I remember right you also painted your solenoids engine color so it's even less obvious! I like how it's semi-concealed, somebody just glancing at it won't see that it obviously has nitrous. The progressive screen is on a spare switch blank plate that I can swap in and out, so it can be hidden in the ashtray, and the arm switch is under the dash and behind the wideband so it isn't noticeable when you look in the car. That is a great idea for a secondary fuel system too, I can probably fit it up by the battery in the massive front fender if needed.

Rich- not yet. I just have to put the colder plugs in it, the bottle is filled and I've tested everything, but I wanted to at least get a timeslip out of it if I'm going to risk hurting the rearend or trans, lol.

Edit: the fuel line looped over the top of the upper radiator hose drives me nuts, but I haven't found a C body upper hose yet that is higher so I could route the fuel line underneath it. If the motor ever has to come out I'm going to ceramic coat the headers and repaint it too.

You could move the outlet on the rad to the center or use straight hose sections and metal elbows to make the hose pass further forward of the engine.

11's in a C will make you large and in charge.

Kevin

It’s got a crossflow radiator in it already so I can’t move the inlet to the center but that’s a great idea on pipe and couplers, thanks!

I’ll be happy with an 11 anything out of it for sure!

Eager to hear how it runs on NOS.

My plan, a few years back, was to just break into the 10's with a baby 150 shot. It surprised the heck out ofme when it ran a 10.69 on a really hot Summer night

Thanks guys. I'd be ecstatic if I could jet it up and get it into the high 10's, but think it would need a supplemental fuel system for the nitrous and probably a converter swap to do it. It's also still running around on a stock blown out bench seat and original lap belts so it isn't exactly the safest idea to make it much quicker.

If it runs better than I expect maybe I'll take the plunge and put a rollbar in it.

A buddy had a 67 mustang with a mild 428 ran 12.20s. He put a 250 shot Comp-U-car on it, wow 10.57 3 times n a row, never heard it shift just one loud roar down the track. I raced it a few times using it just in third. I blew the engine after a solenoid stuck while dry hopping behind the line. Engine died so after shutting the bottle off and cranking over for 30 seconds figgered it was cleared. Wrong, pow, bent rod, cracked block and head, blew out the head gasket and jacked the head bolts. Won’t use that stuff again!!

Look at you all grown up and not immediately cashing the first bottle out on the street!

I always test on the street first so I don't oil down the track! ...in front of a crowd.

Ok, since you guys both called me out for being old and lame, the wideband bungs are going in this weekend and it will get a couple 2nd and 3rd gear hits on the street first before heading to the track.

Needs a 572...

I approve of this message.

I cringe to think about what AFR numbers I might have ran on my old 360 when it had nitrous. It seems in our 20s my friends and I got a free pass on nitrous for awhile. Way to much nitrous on way to much pump gas lol.

I don't have aluminum block 572 money! But... if I ever hurt this one I will build a TF headed 512 stroker for sure.



I know Monte always said that timing is what kills them so I am hopefully OK with the timing retard box set to 8*, but... I really want to monitor it to see how close the tune is on the fuel side, especially running it off the mechanical Carter pump with no regulator, lol

How much were you spraying on your old 360?

It saw 225 for awhile on 91 octane...yikes! It was just junk thrown together to have something to race. It ran 12.90s NA and it was way out of gear on the nitrous.

Quick update on this one. I ran it at Roadkill Nights a couple weekends ago, it did great there and I did spray it for 2 of those passes but I had a mild ramp in the progressive, and it also was on the street so I didn't get any times.

I drove it the 40 miles to Milan Dragway last night and got 3 passes in. 1st all motor pass was a 12.58 @ 107, the air was much worse (3000' DA, 80+ degrees out) than when I ran a 12.46 at Norwalk last year, so I was happy the car was performing like usual. Tried to make a nitrous pass for my second one. Purge worked, but the WOT switch didn't make contact and it slowed down to a 12.64. Whoops!

Third pass, we fixed the WOT switch, and I was rewarded with a 11.37 @ 118.5!!! Straight up stoked it picked up 1.2 seconds with a 180 shot, I wasn't expecting it to run that well, I was going to be happy with an 11.80 or better due to the weather conditions, and I think I startled the timeslip lady when she handed it over.

I was watching the wideband in the car and it was not going lean going through the traps, so that gives me hope that the mechanical pump is keeping up with the fuel demand, and I have some margin to jet it up just a smidge more.

Now I'm already thinking about what I can do to get just one 10.9x timeslip out of it. Figure that's plenty quick for no rollbar, stock lap belts, a column shifter, and 4300 pounds!!

nice work, cool car

NICE ! Congrats

So happy you hit that goal.....AND almost exceeded it !!

By the looks of that mph and 60foot , there is plenty left in it

What was the wideband reading??

Looks like that nitrous bug got you now

Thanks Jerry!



Totally hooked!!! Thank you so much for the advice both here and in PM's, and the congrats. I couldn't be happier with it, although I'll say that again when I get it in the 10's, lol

It's so heavy I think it still needs more gear to get off the line. I might step down to a 275 pro to shorten the final drive up some and help it out. It didn't really spin and I don't have a trans brake so I'm not sure how I can get it to launch any harder besides giving it more gear ratio or swapping the converter.

I have the wideband reading in lambda so it was 0.80-0.82 when I looked at it at in 3rd, so 12.05-ish to 1 air fuel. I was so happy I packed up and didn't bother to check plugs after the pass, but I did at Roadkill Nights after a nitrous pass and they looked great, the timing mark was about where it needed to be. I ran Roadkill on straight 93.

Timing is 38* on motor, and then I had the timing retard pull 9* when the nitrous is activated. It's got a 73 jet in the plate and to be safe I ran it on a 50/50 mix of 93 and 100. I'm guessing I could've pulled a degree or two less timing on the race gas and it would've still been ok.

Nicely done! Congrats!!

Nice job Nick! Looks like the car lost some weight behind the steering wheel.

Remember to approach your tuning in baby steps, easy to get greedy and hurt it

Optimize what you have before going to a bigger jet, then you know what A/F and timing the engine likes so you close when going to a larger jet

First thing i would look at is the AF, 12.0 is a tad rich im sure. Leave the timing low and lean it out 1/2lb at a time ( Induction Solutions has flow gauge on sale right now) Or just reduce the fuel jet .02 or so at a time
Once you get the AF good , what to look for, drop in fuel and it picks up MPH, you went the right way
Once the AF is good, add a .5 degree or 1.0 degree at a time, Again if it picks up...its good, if not go back. Check a plug or two, at least look for heat on the straps. On a BB mopar no heat is good, or just on the edge of the strap thats it
you will be surprised how much these two things will pick the car up, i bet you can go over 120mph.
As far as that 60 foot....have you been purging before a pass?? IF not you will see a big difference for sure. Even if you bang it through the engine it will help a lot.


Happy ET hunting

Nice job, congratulations!

Excellent! Congrats, Nick! Car looks cool, and would hurt some feelings as a legit street car LOL

That's awesome!

Sweet!

10's are just around the corner!

Its a slippery slope!

Your hook now
Congrats on reaching your goal

Nice tuning tips.

Always sneak up on it. If you knew what AFR it liked best on motor, likely it will be very close to those numbers on juice.

Have fun!

Thank you Tony! I need to print this off and paste it in my track toolbox as a reminder how to not hurt it. This is great info, especially about the timing. It makes total sense to not bother advancing it if it doesn't pick up any mph.

I did purge before that pass. I was originally going to just bang it through the motor but with how the mini progressive is set up I would've had to add a few diodes to the circuit I wired in, and figured it was easier to just put a purge solenoid on it. I drilled out the antenna and ran the line through the antenna hole.

Thinking about the launch further, I could've left a little further up against the converter. I was only at 2500 or so when I left, my car is heavy enough it probably will benefit from it. I have the nitrous set up on a window switch from 3500 to 6500 plus the WOT switch, so it shouldn't be a big deal if I get it to 3500 footbraking.

I've watched the video of my car a few times and I'm thinking I need to ditch my air shocks for sure as well, I don't think they're controlling the rear well enough.

Thanks to you guys I have a few things to try next time out, and I hope I can get a couple more tenths and 1-2 more mph out of it without upping the nitrous jet yet.

Jeff - it's just a good angle, lol. It would pick up 1.5 tenths just with you driving it, but I think your head would explode at my shifter setup!

Wes, thank you, really appreciate that. I've put about a thousand miles on it this year. It's just a fun car to cruise, and I'm having even more fun with it now that it's getting to be decently quick.

I really hope 10's are just around the corner!

That's awesome!!!

Saw you on the live feed!

Hell yeah! That car is so cool! Sounds good too!

3.5" pipes, 2 chamber Flowmasters, and no tailpipes. Not terribly classic of a sound but I love it.... and my neighbors do not. lol




Next year I'm definitely going to try spraying it out of the hole out there, the road was surprisingly good. They missed my one good, close run against an early Nova. I lined up against Jim for all of the others, and his Charger made it look like the Fury still had a 318 in it... especially with my naps for reaction times.

Maybe try leaving closer to idle to hit the converter. Just thought.

Slow the video down to .25x speed and watch how the car reacts when leaving.

Seems a bit travel limited up front.

Super happy for ya! You are the man

Thanks Rich!!



Thanks, I definitely have some things to try now in addition to the nitrous tuneup. I've watched the video a bunch and agree it seems to run out of front travel quickly, and once the front suspension tops out the car porpoises. I don't feel that on motor but did feel it on the nitrous pass, each porpoise it felt like it unloaded the rear and tried to spin.

The torsion bars are jacked up a little in the front, mostly for oil pan clearance with all of the street driving I do. I'll have to see if I can put a smaller bump stop on it to help with the extension. It also has air shocks in the rear, those need to go as well. It has a snubber which is adjusted pretty close to the floor.

I think chassis wise next outing I'll try leaving from both a lower and higher rpm to see if it likes either of those any better. I also can try lowering the front so it has more available droop, and also letting the air out of the air shocks. I have clamps on the front of the leaf springs on both sides, I'm surprised how violent it looks after watching it slowed down, it's hitting the tire hard which from what I understand is good for a radial.

I've had multiple people tell me to not waste money on the cheaper drag valved shocks, and Vikings are the only adjustable fronts, so I think if I do anything I'll do it all - fronts, rears, caltracs and possibly their monoleafs, but only if I can't get what's on it to work.

My biggest concern, if it loads and unloads a bunch in 1st gear that it will hurt the sprag in the trans, the valve body doesn't have low band apply.

My old S/P car had single adjustable steel Koni coil overs on the frontend with A arms, I switch them to a set of Afco 36-way double adjustable aluminum coil overs and it help that car 60 Ft better and react quicker once I got them adjusted to what that car needed: work:
I agree on getting rid of the air shocks and better front shocks, you will maybe have fun tuning them and go quicker with better reaction times

Love your car mate, I too have a 68ht, to give your self options, it may be worth considering customising the front shock mount in the stub frame, i haven't tried too hard to find adjustable shocks, but its looking like im going to have down load some catalogues with specs. The C Body front shocks are very short, 8" compressed - 12.25 extended. What the hell the factory was thinking I have no idea (space no doubt).

If anyone has some suggestions, brands or part numbers, im all ears

I assume you have scaled the car? Hows your front to rear percentages? I've seen numerous different weights listed for various C's, real life and random spec sheets. The fury is meant to be the lightest, kinda worried cause mine has AC and a similar trim level to yours plus a 9 on the under body deadening section on my build sheet lols.

The real world weight loss thread on here is a gold mine of info, after the usual low hanging fruit the one that stands out to me with the C is our bolt sizes are generally a "size up" compared to A-B's, so lighter, or drilled bolts through much of the non stressed items will be pretty worth while.

Thanks Cab! Agree, it seems like a worthwhile investment, and I would expect the car would react a little quicker with better shocks. It moves around sloppily like a no prep car, it just doesn't have the front end travel to match, lol

Alchemi, thank you! Yep- the short front shock is definitely a problem. The rear is common with B bodies so anything you want is available. I've looked all over for adjustable shocks for the front. You can get KYB's, Gabriels, and Monroes for non-adjustable. AFCO and Viking show that they offer an adjustable front shock for the 65-up Furies, but the AFCO one looks to be the same part number as the B body front shock so I don't think that will work, it's 16" long instead of 12". The Viking front has a specific part number for the Fury, it's B2002 for their double adjustable but still street oriented shock, and look to be $200 apiece. They also have the B3002 which is the race oriented valving and those are $275 per shock.

I will give them a call to see what they recommend for my car. Your idea of modifying the upper shock mount is a good one too, I need to look at it further but there has to be a way to get a longer shock and have some more travel up there.

I did scale my car last year, before I put the nitrous kit on it (so figure another ~15 pounds of stuff), and I also weigh between 285-300 depending on how many cheeseburgers I've had that week.

3/4 tank, without me, 4027 pounds:

LF: 1085
RF: 1072
LR: 951
RR: 919

3/4 tank, with me: 4330 pounds:

LF: 1194
RF: 1113
LR: 1089
RR: 934

53.8% front, 46.2% rear.


I haven't done anything for weight reduction yet. I can pull the HVAC box out, none of it works anyway. It has 2 layers of carpet, I could remove one of those easily. I also have a manual brake pedal assembly for it that I haven't installed yet, that would get rid of the booster, a vacuum canister, and a vacuum pump that is installed to run the power brakes. Beyond that I think I'd need to start drilling holes and removing bolts. Maybe a lightweight battery too. And go on slimfast, lol

Bumping this up just to keep track of progress more than anything. Goal is get into Roadkill nights again, run 11.50's turned down at Drag Week if I get in, and to run solidly in the 10's by the end of this year.

Since this thread I picked up Viking shocks for all 4 corners, Crusader valving for the rear, B body Caltracs, Calvert stock height split monoleafs, AREngineering front spring hangers and new shackles. Have new Firm Feel tubular UCA's on the way but they haven't arrived yet, will replace LCA bushings, the UCA's, and install the front Vikings all at the same time.

I installed the Caltracs/split monos yesterday since it was almost 60* outside. Have to recheck pinion angle, and also come up with some type of spacer for the lower shock mount as the grommets on the Vikings are smaller than OEM so they have 1/4" of lateral movement on the shock mount. Hoping that ditching the air shocks and worn out springs pick the 60' up a little. From there I want to spend more time tuning the nitrous, there should be some gains there.

If I can sell one of my motorcycles, I am going to swap the heads for Trick Flows, step up to 1 7/8" TTI headers, and redo the exhaust too so it's quieter for extended freeway cruising, but I'll put cutouts on it since whatever it gets replaced with won't flow as well as what's currently on the car.

The stock rods are a risk so I'm going to be more cautious and not run it much past 6000 rpm though. Eventual goal is a 512 stroker and then it'll get good internals but that's 2-3 years down the road. The other risk is the 8 3/4, we'll see if it lasts the season!

Wow, big upgrades! I love this car!

One little thing I might add: Get the shocks as close to vertical as possible. We relocated the upper mounts out towards the framerail.

I agree, worth the effort.

Thanks, appreciate it!!

I cut down the sleeves for the shocks yesterday so they are in correctly now. It also looks like the pinion angle is 2* nose up compared to the trans so I have 4* shims coming from Calvert, then the rearend should be done.

Would I need a different length shock if they get remounted vertically? The C channel they're attached to looks pretty easy to modify. Have been meaning to make a set of subframe connectors and patch the wheelhouses anyway, moving the shocks shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Keep an eye on the stock spring perches. The caltracs put way more load on them and they can start to roll over. If you have a welder or fab buddy it would be easy to reburn the factory welds and add some gussets. Calver also makes some real nice perches that are reinforced.

What mufflers are those that are on there?

That explains the "HD perches" option on Quick Performance rearends and the boxed option on the perches for the Strange S60, I had no idea those were needed but it makes sense now. Thanks! I have a welder, while it won't be pretty I should at least be able to reinforce it a little.

Mufflers are 3.5" 40 series Flowmasters. I love how it sounds, but the hearing loss I've had over the last couple years is saying it should be quieted down some, lol. If I get into Drag Week and don't have a chance to put tailpipes on it I'll toss another set of mufflers on the end for the street drives.

Looking good, Nick!
I'll have to swing by again some day and go for a ride.

Maybe road trip the Imperial?

Great work!

I'm in the same boat with exhaust + years of playing onstage next to hard hitting drummers haven't helped too much.

I went ahead and used my old Calverts and they don't bottom out. I gave Viking the dimensions for the new shocks. Then again, I didn't mount them totally vertical, either.

I know some drag week guys run 3.5" Ultraflows and they claim they are fine on the road.

I run 3" Ultraflows with turndowns in front of the rear axle and they are pretty quiet going down the road but have very little restriction.

The only problem I've had is the drivers side likes to crack where they stamped "Dynomax" in them. Drill stopped and welded and they seem to be fine.

Thanks guys!

Feets, you should come up for the Dream Cruise when your Imperial is back together!

Rich, totally. Work tracks my hearing as part of my CDL test and it took a significant dive in the last 2 years, from better than most to below average. I need to stop that trajectory. You're always playing next to a loud rhythm section too.

GY3, thanks for the exhaust and shock info. Sounds like I can at least stand them up a little further without worrying about bottoming them out but I'll have to measure.

Clark, those would definitely be the quick and dirty backup plan if I don't have time or $$$ to put a full TTI system on it.

For now I'm waiting on the new UCA's, LCA bushings, and the pinion angle shims should be here tomorrow. Another problem just popped up, one of the rear wheel cylinders has sprung a leak. Easy fix but the tires are super difficult to get off the car, the rearend is just a smidge too wide and the wheel lip hits the drum trying to get the tire in past the quarter. Without the air shocks on it and fully extended I have to deflate the tires and ratchet strap them to get them past the quarter. Debating one of the $600 rear disc kits that should give the tire/wheel a little more clearance compared to the drum. It never stops, lol

Nice work! I may have some pieces to help you build a decent motor or two...

I enjoy your car and watching your progress racing. I had a 68 Sport Fury with a 383 330 hp that I did a lot of work on to race, reminds me of that car. If you are going 11s with that beast, I would forget about spending $600 on brakes and start looking for a Dana. Would be a shame to break the diff and all the other problems it can cause. Thanks for the posts!

Very cool build. Proof it doesn't have to be an A,B or E body to be a bad ass street car.

493_john, I really appreciate that. Thank you!



Thank you. I've had a '67 Imperial and '68 300 in addition to the Fury, just seem to gravitate towards the big and oddball cars. The Sport Furies are cooler for sure!

Good point on the Dana. I should replace the 8 3/4 before it breaks and then also rolls the sprag in the trans. It has aftermarket Moser axles, and the converter hits pretty soft, but it's gotta be on borrowed time at this weight and power level.

neat car 8 3/4 still hanging in there ?

Thread update! Weather was not crappy today, got the Firm Feel UCA's installed along with the Viking Warrior front shocks, so now the suspension is completely done! Just need to get it aligned.

Thanks to rickraw's Summit discount codes, I have a set of Trick Flow 270's on the way, ETA is sometime in June, and Wilwood rear discs to match my fronts have shown up already. I don't trust the 8 3/4 if I go any quicker and don't want to have to pull the trans every time I break it, so the plan is to order a Strange S60 this week. Was considering a 9" but the snout is about an inch shorter than an 8 3/4, so I'd need another new driveshaft, instead of my existing one getting shortened. At that point the Dana is cheaper. Planning on 35 spline axles, 4.10's instead of my current 4.30's, a truetrac, and about 1/2" narrower, so hopefully between the rear being narrower and the discs, the wheels will be easy to get on and off the car again.

I'm debating if I'm going to bolt the heads right to this shortblock. It runs great right now, doesn't have any blowby, and everything works together well. My concern is with better heads it's going to want to rev to the moon, and it still has stock weight TRW 2355's in it so I'm worried the LY rods are going to yeet themselves if I rev it much past 6500.

Option 1 is use the 270's on the 446 shortblock and run that for a couple years until my wallet recovers. I need to buy new rockers anyway, could pick up some 1.6 instead of 1.5 Harland Sharps to get the lift up to 0.630-ish, and leave everything else the same (850 DP Holley, TM7 intake, MP cam, 1 3/4" headers), and try to keep the engine speed below 6500 to reduce stress on the rods. Guessing it would pick up 4-ish tenths from the head/rocker swap, and then I could jet the nitrous up a little further which should get me solidly into the 10's.

Option 2 is to leave it as is this year, then over the winter pull it and put a lightweight 512 stroker rotating assembly in it, with main studs, new caps, fresh machinework, etc. It would also get the heads, a roller cam, MW sized intake, and I'd upgrade the headers to the 1 7/8" TTI's. It's only money, right? Lol

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick

Nothing the matter with the existing short block. Just keep the revs down. Don't get greedy.
Doug

you want the manual steering box in it before you bother aligning it, don't you?

On those rear willwoods be sure to account for the rotor had thickness in your overall width. My set the hats are 1/2" thick so it adds 1" to the WMS width. Just about screwed myself on that one, my tires fit within 1/4" and that would have been an expensive redo.

New plan sounds good, faster never hurt anyone lol.

Thanks Doug! That's what I'm thinking for now too. Then if the shortblock ever gets hurt, then swap out the rotating assembly. Maybe 6k for shift points and then make sure it doesn't go above 6500 in 3rd.

Jeremy- definitely. I should be cruising through around easter. I also saw some tie rods that needed attention and the idler arm could use replacing too, I should do all of that at once! I assume it's gonna take at least a month for the rear to show up anyway so I have time.

Clark- thank you for the heads up. I should pull the brake kit out of the box and measure, that would've been a bad deal. My tires are as close as yours and I was hoping to get a smidge more clearance, without having them tucked in too far. A half inch out from where they are now would wreck everything, lol

Nice updates. I'd almost leave the motor alone and spray it where you want it. But again I'd definitely find weight loss because I'm sure there's a couple tenths to be had easy. And that weight stays off...

I’m in a similar boat as you, and i’m putting the 270s on my built 446 short block (forged pistons & scat rods). The guides in my stealth heads are shot though. I bought 240s last year, then sold them for 270s. Ive had an Eddy Super Victor with MW ports on backorder since May. It JUST shipped. Summit has 4 more in stock, I’d buy one now if you can swing it.

I was just gonna run my intake for now until it came in if the intake didn’t show up before the head swap. You’d be .594 before lash if you go to 1.6 rockers. I’m only .520 with 1.5s, might go to 1.6s later. I wish I had a little more lift but I’m happy with my cam and don’t want to risk breaking in another FT, and don’t want a solid roller.

Its not going to rev to the moon with the 270s in my opinion, it will just make alot more power upstsirs. You don’t HAVE to keep revving it, but I know its hard not to!