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'68 Fury street/strip project thread - new goal of 10.0's #2969430
10/01/21 08:56 PM
10/01/21 08:56 PM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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I've made a couple posts about my car already. It's a '68 Fury III (4500 pounds with me in it!!) that has an old school built 440 in it. Ported 906's, 30 over 6 pack pistons, LY rods, 590 mopar cam, TM7 intake, 850 Holley DP and 1 3/4" headers with 3.5" exhaust and flowmasters. I ran 12.40's with it last month and am going to try to get it to the track one more time this year before the season is up. I'm thinking I can maybe get another tenth or two out of it. It's also got an Ultimate converter that seems to flash around 4500, and 4.30 gears with 295 M/T drag radials. Have spent some time messing with timing and squirters, it runs pretty good at this point and at the track it hooked fine launching from 3000-ish, but it just has air shocks in the back so I assume I'm going to need caltracs and adjustable shocks if I put any more power to it.

The goal is to run 11.50's in any conditions, so probably 11.30's in good air. That needs a minimum of an 150 hp bump over where I'm at now. Whatever I do with it, I also want it to be reliable, as the goal is to run one of the drag and drive events next year. Drag Week, Midwest Drags, or Rocky Mountain Race Week.

The initial thought was to put a 200 hp plate kit on it, that should get it to where I need to be. I'll need to upgrade the fuel system, but other than that it might be ready to go. I worry a bit about durability with spraying it, but it should at least get me to the ET goal.

The other option is to spend some money on the motor and make that difference up n/a. I think the heads are the biggest restriction currently. Trick Flows look like there really is no ETA on them due to supply issues - every time I look on Summit's site the expected ship date keeps slipping. I think Indy 440 EZ's are available, but don't know if they would get me to where I need to be out of the box compared to the TF's.

The other concern is I'm not sure the small-ish headers, cam, and honestly the rotating assembly, is going to be ok to get a 446 to the 600 hp range without being suspect. I'm not an expert by any means but I'm thinking to get 600 hp out of an n/a stock displacement RB is going to require more rpm than the pistons and rods are safe to.

What are everyone's thoughts? Will a head swap get me there? Or do I really need to dive into the shortblock to get to where I need to be?

Thanks,
Nick


Last edited by Blusmbl; 12/08/23 11:26 PM. Reason: beat original goals, continuing thread!

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969442
10/01/21 09:22 PM
10/01/21 09:22 PM
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Scully Offline
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What's your best MPH and at what track and conditions, that will give a good idea on the HP you're making now, the 590 is a pretty good old school cam IMO.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Scully] #2969448
10/01/21 09:43 PM
10/01/21 09:43 PM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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It went 12.46 @ a little over 108 at Norwalk last month, I don't know what the DA was but it was a normal early fall midwest day, thinking low 60's for temp in the evening. The Wallace Racing calculators show between 440-460 hp based on the weight. The motor went 11.90's in a B body, 2 owners ago. It has a mechanical fan and power steering, which certainly isn't helping it.

I set the lash at 28/32 based on the original specs for the 590, and timing is at 38* with a Mr. Gasket light spring kit so it's pretty much all in at idle. I wanted to see if there was anything on the table with jetting but ran out of time, only got 2 runs in during a 5 hour T&T. Hoping for a few more and really wanted to see if jetting it up helped any.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969457
10/01/21 10:03 PM
10/01/21 10:03 PM
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Wow I had the same exact combination . But I had hyperutectic pistons . Any way my car ran 11.30’s and weighed 3500 , so honestly I think your running pretty well for what you have . I would have no problem spraying that combo . It won’t take 150 either . All your going to need is a .052 nitrous jet and I can almost guarantee your going to drop a second or more like nothing .

Get your self a Saturday night special plate and your set


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: n20mstr] #2969464
10/01/21 10:30 PM
10/01/21 10:30 PM
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I would buy a lighter, more modern rotating assembly, then update the heads. Even ported Eddies would have way more potential than what you have, they go over 300 easily with modest work.
Then if the above doesn't get you there, you are way better equipped to maybe spray a more modest amount( onto better parts) to reach your goal.
To me, a good shortblock is the foundation to any attempt to make even half way serious power.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: B3422W5] #2969484
10/01/21 11:58 PM
10/01/21 11:58 PM
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West Plains, MO
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Is there any way you can take some weight out of the car? 4500 lb takes a lot of power to go fast. Each 100 lb is good for a tenth... work

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: DrCharles] #2969498
10/02/21 06:15 AM
10/02/21 06:15 AM
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Nothing wrong with the EZ heads. I bought through Fast [Porter Racing heads] and gained 6mph and 4 tenths by just a head swap over ported 906s. Minor bowl work back cut valves standard port. Same 590 cam as you. 446. As said b/4 eliminate weight.


America First!
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969580
10/02/21 11:15 AM
10/02/21 11:15 AM
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rb446 Offline
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
I've made a couple posts about my car already. It's a '68 Fury III (4500 pounds with me in it!!) that has an old school built 440 in it. Ported 906's, 30 over 6 pack pistons, LY rods, 590 mopar cam, TM7 intake, 850 Holley DP and 1 3/4" headers with 3.5" exhaust and flowmasters. I ran 12.40's with it last month and am going to try to get it to the track one more time this year before the season is up. I'm thinking I can maybe get another tenth or two out of it. It's also got an Ultimate converter that seems to flash around 4500, and 4.30 gears with 295 M/T drag radials. Have spent some time messing with timing and squirters, it runs pretty good at this point and at the track it hooked fine launching from 3000-ish, but it just has air shocks in the back so I assume I'm going to need caltracs and adjustable shocks if I put any more power to it.

The goal is to run 11.50's in any conditions, so probably 11.30's in good air. That needs a minimum of an 150 hp bump over where I'm at now. Whatever I do with it, I also want it to be reliable, as the goal is to run one of the drag and drive events next year. Drag Week, Midwest Drags, or Rocky Mountain Race Week.

The initial thought was to put a 200 hp plate kit on it, that should get it to where I need to be. I'll need to upgrade the fuel system, but other than that it might be ready to go. I worry a bit about durability with spraying it, but it should at least get me to the ET goal.

The other option is to spend some money on the motor and make that difference up n/a. I think the heads are the biggest restriction currently. Trick Flows look like there really is no ETA on them due to supply issues - every time I look on Summit's site the expected ship date keeps slipping. I think Indy 440 EZ's are available, but don't know if they would get me to where I need to be out of the box compared to the TF's.

The other concern is I'm not sure the small-ish headers, cam, and honestly the rotating assembly, is going to be ok to get a 446 to the 600 hp range without being suspect. I'm not an expert by any means but I'm thinking to get 600 hp out of an n/a stock displacement RB is going to require more rpm than the pistons and rods are safe to.

What are everyone's thoughts? Will a head swap get me there? Or do I really need to dive into the shortblock to get to where I need to be?

Thanks,
Nick



My mate ran a 3150lb Dart to 10.1'@132 best with a 12.7:1 440 with LY rods I believe, had the .590 cam and MCH ported Eddy heads (320cfm), a Victor Intake and a 1050 Dom, just barely made the 600fwhp mark on Wallace with weight/mph. The block was well built in the US by the guy that raced it and he bought it over to the UK so I would think it had well prepped rods/bolts but who knows for sure. He used to turn near 6800rpm in the traps with it with his chassis combo. Lasted for approx 4 seasons here of hard racing before it blew.

So I personally don't think just a head swap would get you another 150hp with your in theory 10:1CR and that cam. I ran a similar motor to what you have in 1990 with 6pk rods/pistons, a Team G intake, 850DP, 2" f/well hdrs, ported BV 906's (260cfm) and a .650"/290@.050 SFT cam@around 9.8:1 and made 530fwhp according to Wallace for weight/mph. I turned that to 66>6700 in the traps NA and 7400 with a 175 b/shot N20 system,=660hp. I had a single external oiling system to handle the rpm. Pistons are no problem, its the rod bolts you may have that are the weak link as we know.

I think if TF heads or similar 300+cfm heads were about then apart from B1's which I couldn't afford to pull the motor and replace everything I could've got close to around 570>580hp at that low CR mainly cos of the cam. I would go with a 150 shot and see where you end up you would in theory be pulling 63>6400rpm max in the traps with your parts. So unless you want to pull the motor and go through it completely with ally heads and more comp NA that 600 no. ain't gonna happen the way I see it in reality.......my 2c's.

Last edited by rb446; 10/02/21 11:26 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: rb446] #2969582
10/02/21 11:23 AM
10/02/21 11:23 AM
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Sell the complete long block, build a 50X” with good heads.

Or...... spray it.

The thing the spray does besides the extra HP........ is you also get a giant boost in TQ, that you won’t get by hopping up the stock stroke engine by traditional means.
With the normal NA mods, you’ll get a little boost in TQ, but the big HP gains will be made by extending the upper part of the power curve(carry the TQ to a higher rpm).


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: carnut68] #2969583
10/02/21 11:24 AM
10/02/21 11:24 AM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Thanks guys!

Definitely agree the shortblock could use an upgrade. I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too. I did have the pan off a couple months ago and checked a couple rod bearings, it looked great inside, so I'm struggling to take it apart since it's a perfectly good running motor. Maybe I start buying rotating stuff now and then if I ever hurt a piston or something it gets a full rebuild.

I will have to look for spots to take weight out of it, it's a street car but I should be able to do something. Nobody makes fiberglass parts for Furies and the hood is ridiculously heavy. It has discs now but has power brakes, along with an accumulator and a vacuum pump to run them. I could ditch some weight there if I find a manual brake setup, and maybe switch it to manual steering. The subframe on C bodies looks really beefy too, not sure if I can take a holesaw to it, or maybe some interior panels or something. I did plan on pulling the hvac box. It also has 2 layers of carpet so I'll pull one of those out.

4 tenths and 6 mph from swapping to EZ's on a 446 makes sense and is encouraging but also highlights I'm definitely not going to get to 11.50's with just the head swap. Maybe I go that route and try to get some weight out of it, that'll put it into the high 11's at least, and then make up the difference with spray?

EZ's have stock plug location and exhaust ports, right? If they've got similar potential to Trick Flows, and they're available now, that might be a winner. What kind of rpm are you turning with them and the 590 cam, carnut?

Edit: 2 more responses since I started typing. Thank you. That matched my gut feeling, getting to 11.50's at the cars weight likely isn't happening without changing the rotating assembly. Or spraying it.

Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?


Last edited by Blusmbl; 10/02/21 11:31 AM.

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969587
10/02/21 11:30 AM
10/02/21 11:30 AM
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merpar Offline
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First thing I would look at is weight. Its free hp. What you have in the motor, every thing is very heavy. Were the heads ported using MP porting templates? Those pistons weigh a ton and probably about 9;1 comp. and the 590 MP cam sucks. But weight is your biggest problem and cheapest to solve. I had a 70' Challenger I did a full chassis on got the weight down to 2450 built a 451 low deck. Ported 906 heads with MP templates. Don't remember cam specs but was a solid roller with .625 lift and running LY rods. It ran 9.80 in Sacramento Cal. Not bragging, just an example of how much difference weight makes. If you're going to buy heads, don't waste your money unless you go with Trick Flow. If rebuilding bottom end think lighter pistons, forged and better rods. Scat makes a nice 4340 I beam rod. If your crank is a stock forged item, it will take the horse power. Just be patient and think things through. One more thought, a lighter car is much easier on your engine and transmission. Best of luck to you and your changes, and don't be afraid to ask anyone for advice.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: merpar] #2969598
10/02/21 11:50 AM
10/02/21 11:50 AM
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Plymouth, MI
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Thanks again. The torque should help it with the car being so heavy too, so that really says it either needs some nitrous or a stroker kit. The power I'd need to get there n/a at 446" likely needs a rotating assembly that will handle more rpm than what mine is safe to.

The heads were ported in the 80's I believe and have a bunch of work done to them, they supposedly flow 263 cfm.

I only want to buy things once, so maybe a plate kit for now and then start saving up to build a completely new longblock with a 505/512 with Trick Flows or EZ's.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969619
10/02/21 12:47 PM
10/02/21 12:47 PM
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150 shot would put you comfortably in the 11's. Cheapest easiest route from where you're currently at.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: gsmopar] #2969620
10/02/21 12:50 PM
10/02/21 12:50 PM
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Put it in a 1000# lighter car.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: GomangoCuda] #2969718
10/02/21 07:24 PM
10/02/21 07:24 PM
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As mentioned already don't start spending yet get a plan then go hog wild. Good luck whichever direction you go


71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it.
67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: 67mprfan] #2969752
10/02/21 08:32 PM
10/02/21 08:32 PM
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Plymouth, MI
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Thanks, definitely still in the planning stages, and agree- definitely only want to buy stuff once. For now I think a small plate kit is the winner, it will get me to where I want to be and shouldn't hurt anything... except maybe the trans or rearend. lol

I love the car too much to try going fast with something else.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969837
10/03/21 12:10 AM
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My Charger went from consistent 12:50's @ 110 MPH, to inconsestent mid 11's @ 120 MPH with a new engine making 100+ more power. That is at Bandimere, like 9,000 ft DA in the summer.
The Charger is 4150 lbs, but a street car. It needs adjustible shocks and suspension work, and likely more tire than the 10.5x27" drag radials.
The extra power has reduced the no so great 60' times from about 1.7 to 1.8+

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #2969851
10/03/21 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Thanks guys!

Definitely agree the shortblock could use an upgrade. I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too. I did have the pan off a couple months ago and checked a couple rod bearings, it looked great inside, so I'm struggling to take it apart since it's a perfectly good running motor. Maybe I start buying rotating stuff now and then if I ever hurt a piston or something it gets a full rebuild.

I will have to look for spots to take weight out of it, it's a street car but I should be able to do something. Nobody makes fiberglass parts for Furies and the hood is ridiculously heavy. It has discs now but has power brakes, along with an accumulator and a vacuum pump to run them. I could ditch some weight there if I find a manual brake setup, and maybe switch it to manual steering. The subframe on C bodies looks really beefy too, not sure if I can take a holesaw to it, or maybe some interior panels or something. I did plan on pulling the hvac box. It also has 2 layers of carpet so I'll pull one of those out.

4 tenths and 6 mph from swapping to EZ's on a 446 makes sense and is encouraging but also highlights I'm definitely not going to get to 11.50's with just the head swap. Maybe I go that route and try to get some weight out of it, that'll put it into the high 11's at least, and then make up the difference with spray?

EZ's have stock plug location and exhaust ports, right? If they've got similar potential to Trick Flows, and they're available now, that might be a winner. What kind of rpm are you turning with them and the 590 cam, carnut?

Edit: 2 more responses since I started typing. Thank you. That matched my gut feeling, getting to 11.50's at the cars weight likely isn't happening without changing the rotating assembly. Or spraying it.

Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?

I shift at 6500. 391 gears 5200 convertor. A body. EZs are angle plug stock port location. Mine flow from 295@ 500 to 323@700. With more potential by opening to larger ports.

Last edited by carnut68; 10/03/21 06:06 AM.

America First!
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: carnut68] #2969885
10/03/21 08:28 AM
10/03/21 08:28 AM
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I know there are NO2 cars on drag week, but I'd think it would be a pain to keep up with bottle supply all week. Of course a full out turbo/supercharger deal that needs ice every one is a pain too. But would a 'simple' supercharger and air to air intercooler be an option? Obv it costs more than the bottle.

I've still got your 4.15 crank and the EZ heads sitting over here. whistling
I do plan to use them in the Charger at some point though.


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: furious70] #2970004
10/03/21 02:59 PM
10/03/21 02:59 PM
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Plymouth, MI
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Thanks everybody. 451, it definitely sounds like you could benefit from more tire and some suspension work. 120 mph is hauling!

I've definitely considered other power adders. If I win the lotto, or at the very least get out of other hobbies, turboing it would be a stretch goal. But...I can't fabricate a project like that and I'd want to do it right (multiport efi, e85, turbo friendly cam, rear gear and converter, rollbar, trans brake etc), and at that point the goal would be 9.50's instead of 11.50's. lol

I do remember Monte (rip) used to fill everybody's nitrous bottles on drag week. I don't know if any other vendors do that now on the drag and drive events, but I also would expect that 2 bottles would last a whole event, with only a pass or two per day.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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