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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2967153
09/24/21 08:23 PM
09/24/21 08:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 427
saint paul mn.
johnzgarage
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 427
saint paul mn.
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Ya, I think i get what your trying to do by lowering the total rpm on the torque/power curve. Is this just driven on the street ? or is it raced ? Correct, just street driven and I just wanted the power/torque a bit lower in the rpm range. Swapping our and breaking in another flat tappet cam that's better suited for my application/wants just doesn't seem worth the effort, risk or cost. This all came about because I have the engine apart to replace some gaskets and freshen up the paint and detail. Uncovering the timing chain and knowing that the crank gear has the advance/retard keyways started the ideas in my little head so.... Copper My guess is you want seat of the pants power, but yet want to drive down the highway at a lower rpm.....right ?
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: AndyF]
#2967169
09/24/21 09:51 PM
09/24/21 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 615
Boise
Moparteacher
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 615
Boise
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You should go ahead and change it just so you go thru the process. You'll never learn anything by listening to a bunch of opinions on the internet, you actually have to run the test yourself and see what happens. In your case you'll never notice the difference but you shouldn't take my word for it, do the test and see for yourself and then you'll know. This is the best advise yet. You really don't know what difference if any advancing that camshaft 2 degrees will make, and you will never find out if you don't try. What's a worst thing that could happen? A minor change in the torque curve and shifting at a few hundred rpms earlier? My opinion (which isn't worth the ink used to create this post) is it won't make a noticeable difference, and if it does, it'll be favorable. It might result in a little more torque in the mid range, make the engine a tenee wenee bit snappier with no noticeable loss up top. Just do it and be glad you did it because YOU wanted to do it. No worries. Best of luck.
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: 67_Satellite]
#2967182
09/24/21 10:56 PM
09/24/21 10:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
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Don't be surprised if it hits a "wall" about 5000-5500 r.p.m. Been watching a series of you tube videos about a clown building a 440 for "Mopar MaMa" which inexplicably wouldn't rev past 5k. Many missteps along their way, but I don't know if they ever figured out they pissed in their wheaties with the fast comp cams hyd, cam and 1.6 rockers, I know just who you are talking about they dyno the engine again after changes got 470 hp out of it. be ok for a street car
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2967188
09/24/21 11:43 PM
09/24/21 11:43 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
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Based on your comments I think you may need to change the cam entirely to achieve what you're after. (understand your trepidation of breaking in another cam)
Still, while it's apart, I think the best thing you could do is say, this is my goal/what I would like to achieve. Then, change what's necessary to achieve that.
Advancing your existing cam will not likely align with the ideal answer to the above question.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: INTMD8]
#2967216
09/25/21 06:01 AM
09/25/21 06:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,208
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,208
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Crane cams literature from years ago stated that moving the cam 2° would change the power band 50 rpm. Advancing the cam would peak it 50 rpm lower and retarding it 2° would raise the peak power 50 rpm. They probably knew what they were talking about, so unless you need to make more power lower or later for your combination or you are looking to operate the engine in a specific rpm range you will never notice the difference.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2967219
09/25/21 06:37 AM
09/25/21 06:37 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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Agree with most of the viewpoints above especially you'll never learn unless you try  life lessons!  I have already installed it as built and i'm going to leave it alone.  Pump gas concerns and actual rpm shift/gains made me question the cliche' "if it aint broke, don.t fix it" This has served as a lesson on how to better choose a cam in the future. Thanks for all of the  Copper
Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2967229
09/25/21 08:18 AM
09/25/21 08:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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so what would you learn if the cam was installed an additional 2 degrees advanced if it was never ran at the ground in 4 degrees advance?  the old rule of thumb was if you don't know where to install a camshaft then put it in with the overlap split as a starting point. i think this rule is still a good one.
Last edited by lewtot184; 09/25/21 08:18 AM.
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: bobby66]
#2967418
09/25/21 09:57 PM
09/25/21 09:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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Back in the 70's I just lined up the marks and went on my way. Now I know what the smart kids were doing.  I've seen many gear sets have the dot on the cam gear not directly over the point of the gear tooth, more towards the middle  If I align the dot to the right side facing the gear it would be one tooth off which is right at 12 degrees on the 3 bolt BB gear sets with the 3 keyways on the crank gear  I've seen many BB Mopar builds that wouldn't fall out of a tree with the cam retarded 12 degrees I learned that lesson, about NOT assuming lining up the dots was the best way to install cams the hard way, it was on the first solid roller cam I built for a customer Turned out the cam keyway was cut into it 10 degrees off I degree every cam now  , why shouldn't you DO IT
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/25/21 09:58 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2967444
09/26/21 06:19 AM
09/26/21 06:19 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,589
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,589
nowhere
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Crane cams literature from years ago stated that moving the cam 2° would change the power band 50 rpm. Advancing the cam would peak it 50 rpm lower and retarding it 2° would raise the peak power 50 rpm. They probably knew what they were talking about, so unless you need to make more power lower or later for your combination or you are looking to operate the engine in a specific rpm range you will never notice the difference. And that test was specific to that engine with that cam. You really cannot extrapolate much from that test. Engine Masters did a similar test.
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2967495
09/26/21 11:00 AM
09/26/21 11:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 743
Southern Alberta
Uberpube
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 743
Southern Alberta
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Back in the 70's I just lined up the marks and went on my way. Now I know what the smart kids were doing. I've seen many gear sets have the dot on the cam gear not directly over the point of the gear tooth, more towards the middle If I align the dot to the right side facing the gear it would be one tooth off which is right at 12 degrees on the 3 bolt BB gear sets with the 3 keyways on the crank gear I've seen many BB Mopar builds that wouldn't fall out of a tree with the cam retarded 12 degrees I learned that lesson, about NOT assuming lining up the dots was the best way to install cams the hard way, it was on the first solid roller cam I built for a customer Turned out the cam keyway was cut into it 10 degrees off I degree every cam now , why shouldn't you DO IT Thats exactly how my comp cams timing set worked out on my 505 project.
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Re: Installing my camshaft 2* advanced
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2967804
09/27/21 11:42 AM
09/27/21 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,941
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,941
NC
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Honestly, the chances of a fast rate hyd cam pulling strong up to 6500 in a BB is pretty slim. I agree.... Good point Dwayne. You are the voice of experience.
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