Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
#2962021
09/07/21 09:30 PM
09/07/21 09:30 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
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mopar
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Ct
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Hi All, I need some advice on how to proceed , or navigate through a situation I have found myself in. We own a 65 Bel 2 convertible . We have had it for 25 years or so . Bought as a fixer upper and did just that. Its a great looking , great driving , driver . A month or so ago a tree fell on the car across the 1/4s and deck lid, and all needs to be replaced. Fairly heavy damage . Heavy enough where I'm sure it needs some time on a frame machine.
The car is well insured for stated value . This is not a hagerty policy but a reputable well known Insurer none the less. They sent an "adjuster" over to look at and estimate it. He walked in took 3 pics and put together an unrealistically low estimate . Such as 1/4 panels @ $750 each , labor @ $52 per hour , no time on a frame machine ect. . Granted he stated the cost are subject to change . It just didnt make sense to me why they wasted the money to pay this guy ? Since he came up with this estimate they are calling me daily wanting to settle ($5800.00 ) . At this point I have stopped taking their calls. But thats not a solution
The dilemma's are :
No regular body shops are interested , as I would have expected . I have called 4 restoration shops within reasonable distance. All of these shops are large and well staffed , well equipped . What scares me about them is the attitude I'm sensing . I guess I would describe it as arrogant and I feel like they really aren't interested . The comments have been things like "of course we can help but we are booked out 6-8 months and not sure when we can look at it . Or one guy offered to estimate it but he needed the car for 3 days and estimates the estimate might cost $500.00. Is it because it involves collision work and they are afraid of it?
I had one guy that was nice enough to come look at it . He is a one man band , older gent that has been around for a long time . He spent about an hour looking it over and talking ideas with me . When I showed him the estimate he became kind of irritated and maybe discouraged at the thought of having to deal with an insurance co and adjusters. I think he may have had enough of that when he owned a collision shop . I'm waiting for his estimate .
Maybe I should pay someone to estimate it ?
I guess to boil it down maybe I'm feeling like the big shops may be overkill for this car ? But in the same respect I didnt want to just get one estimate and opinion on how to fix it. I'm rambling now , sorry.
Thought I was looking for advice but maybe just needing to vent and see what comes back.
Thanks for reading
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Neil]
#2962065
09/08/21 12:53 AM
09/08/21 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,703 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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North Dakota
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First off you need to get your insurance problem solved. If your carrier is lowballing you, and it sounds like they are, get this squared away before you do anything else. Then it depends on how much of a hurry you are in. It's like anything, you want it done right now, you will pay top dollar. If you are patient and beat the bushes I'm sure you'll find people who can do it for you to your satisfaction. But I agree with what has been said, this is going to require multiple shops, at least a frame shop and a body shop as a minimum.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: mattsmopars]
#2962228
09/08/21 04:39 PM
09/08/21 04:39 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
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I think part of the trouble that you face is dealing with the "insurance company". Most of those restoration shops are going to be charging more than what the insurance will or would pay a normal body shop in an hourly rate. Reality is insurance companies some how basically dictate what they will pay a shop hourly and unless the shop agrees to work with them, the customer would be out the difference. Most restoration shops will charge what ever their posted rate is per hour, per person for what ever amount of time they invest in your vehicle. I am guessing that is the reason the one shop mentions the idea of charging for a good estimate. Most of these insurance companies pay a third party independent appraisal person or company to send someone out and all they care about is getting the original estimate written so they can collect for that. Insurance companies know that most claims will have a supplement , but all of that will have to be proven and sent into them with pictures and emails as the work progresses. All of that takes time to do so it will take a shop either willing to do those things, or you can try to get a couple good estimates to begin with and see if they will agree to pay those. It really sucks that this is the way things go but working in a bodyshop for 20 years gives me some experience with this. Reality is they, the "insurance companies" place all of this responsibility on the shop to do today and it really is a pain. Matt Matt thanks for the experienced insight . Pretty much what I was thinking .
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Neil]
#2962281
09/08/21 07:01 PM
09/08/21 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,860 Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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Insurance doesn't owe to repaint the whole car if the paint is in bad shape, so he'd be on the hook for the cost if he wanted that done. $52/hour is about average nationally for collision work. A resto shop normally charges higher rates, but they also normally bill straight time, not flat rate like most collision shops do. Matt's comments are spot on, and that's coming from someone on the other side of the collision repair industry.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: not_a_charger]
#2962321
09/08/21 08:47 PM
09/08/21 08:47 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
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The guy who wrote the estimate...is he an employee of the insurance company, or is he an independent adjuster they hired? He is an independent “adjuster” but I don’t think he is an adjuster at all . He works for an appraisal co..
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: not_a_charger]
#2962322
09/08/21 08:50 PM
09/08/21 08:50 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
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OP
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Insurance doesn't owe to repaint the whole car if the paint is in bad shape, so he'd be on the hook for the cost if he wanted that done. $52/hour is about average nationally for collision work. A resto shop normally charges higher rates, but they also normally bill straight time, not flat rate like most collision shops do. Matt's comments are spot on, and that's coming from someone on the other side of the collision repair industry. Exactly. Resto shops are $125.00 per and only seem to work by the hour . It seems they provide quotes at a fee and the quote means nothing. Not binding at all , just a guesstimate. And the paint is perfect, it’s patriot blue and easily matched.
Last edited by Wirenut; 09/08/21 08:51 PM.
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Wirenut]
#2962334
09/08/21 09:39 PM
09/08/21 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270 Morrow, OH
markz528
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Morrow, OH
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I don't know if you are still looking at other shops, and I don't know what part of CT you are in, but F&R Body Shop in Johnsonville NY might be an option. I have known Frank Berard forever, and he always did my work for me when I lived in CT. He is a collision shop, race car fabricator and custom car builder. Might not hurt to give him a call. http://www.fandrbodyshop.com/
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Wirenut]
#2962371
09/09/21 05:34 AM
09/09/21 05:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,860 Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,860
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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The guy who wrote the estimate...is he an employee of the insurance company, or is he an independent adjuster they hired? He is an independent “adjuster” but I don’t think he is an adjuster at all . He works for an appraisal co.. It's interesting that he's an independent, yet underwrote the estimate. Independent's get paid for writing the estimate, and that's it. If there's a supplement, they have to take care of it on their own dime. Usually, it's "write it high and let it fly" with an Independent. That said, he likely wrote it at $52/hour because you don't know where you're getting the car fixed. If he's someone who regularly works for a collector company, he knows that a resto shop will charge higher rates, and he'll make the adjustment once the car is in the shop. Collector companies don't stay in business by arguing with their customers' repair shops. Pick a resto shop with a reputation for quality, and get the ball rolling. You're not going to get collision repair timeliness with a resto shop. Resto shops aren't production shops.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: not_a_charger]
#2962375
09/09/21 05:54 AM
09/09/21 05:54 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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The guy who wrote the estimate...is he an employee of the insurance company, or is he an independent adjuster they hired? He is an independent “adjuster” but I don’t think he is an adjuster at all . He works for an appraisal co.. It's interesting that he's an independent, yet underwrote the estimate. Independent's get paid for writing the estimate, and that's it. If there's a supplement, they have to take care of it on their own dime. Usually, it's "write it high and let it fly" with an Independent. That said, he likely wrote it at $52/hour because you don't know where you're getting the car fixed. If he's someone who regularly works for a collector company, he knows that a resto shop will charge higher rates, and he'll make the adjustment once the car is in the shop. Collector companies don't stay in business by arguing with their customers' repair shops. Pick a resto shop with a reputation for quality, and get the ball rolling. You're not going to get collision repair timeliness with a resto shop. Resto shops aren't production shops. Thanks again for the advice
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: markz528]
#2962376
09/09/21 05:55 AM
09/09/21 05:55 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
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OP
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Wirenut]
#2962388
09/09/21 07:20 AM
09/09/21 07:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,793 Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Castlegar, BC, Canada
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I pretty much just went through the same ordeal as you.... if not worse. I've been looking on and off since 2013 to have my AMC Gremlin done. I also live in British Columbia, a province not exactly well-known for good body shops. Most places in this province will only deal with ICBC (our provincially run insurance corporation) because they get to bill 10x to ICBC what they could to a regular customer. ICBC of course, just passes those savings on to the customer.... so we have some of the highest insurance rates in the industrialized world. What fun!
So, finding a "boutique" body shop is near impossible. I bet you, before I found Pacific Muscle Cars, I must've phoned a dozen places in BC and even contacted Cold War Motors in Alberta! Everybody is either booked 3-4 years in advance, won't touch the car because there's no reproduction sheet metal, laughed at me because they don't think a Gremlin is "worthy" of being restored.... one even laughed at me saying no *bleep* ing chance and hung up.
So, if you're getting a bad vibe right off the bat.... avoid the place.
When I finally found Pacific Muscle Cars, the owner actually took me seriously. While he's no AMC guy, I think he understands that everybody likes something different. Just because he may not be hip to it, doesn't mean it's not worthy. He actually thought of it as a challenge as he'd never done an AMC before! Anyway, I got a really good feeling over emails, phone convo's.... he seemed to ask all the right questions and when I had a question, he'd have an answer that put me at ease. I was even able to talk him OUT of going base/clear and using single stage.
When we delivered the car, I took a knowledgeable buddy with me and he got the same impression too. Yes, new shop; yes, younger crew, but seemed to all be on the right setting. Their shop was CLINICALLY clean. Like, seriously, I'd seen dirtier hospitals! They set time aside every month to dung out the shop and I think that's pretty important too.
Long story short, turn-around for my little Grem was 60 days and it looks marvellous in pictures. Had we not had truck issues today, the car would've been home today. Another friend of mine was gracious enough to loan me his insane souped-up 1-ton Dodge and 20+ foot equipment trailer to go pick up my little pimple of a Gremlin er.... well, later today. I got six hours of sleep in the last 48.... that's enough, right?
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: Wirenut]
#2962432
09/09/21 10:56 AM
09/09/21 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,498 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,498
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Have your insurance company total it and pay you the stated value.................find another car. Or buy the car back for salvage and use the stated value $$$ to have it repaired like you want...........................just throwing that out there to see if any of that would even stick What do you think Mike? Mike
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Re: Body Shop Resto shop owners need some advice
[Re: A12]
#2962439
09/09/21 11:26 AM
09/09/21 11:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,860 Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,860
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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He doesn't decide that. It's not as though the customer says "I want it totaled," and the insurance company says, "Oh, OK." If the insurance company totals it, I think either of those are potentially good ideas.
Now, what if they can't find quarters? If they can't fix the car for a reason like that, (as opposed to cost or damage severity), then there's a possible opening to be able to argue that since the car can't be fixed, it is a total loss.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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