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Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2949963
08/03/21 11:09 AM
08/03/21 11:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Remy-Z
Well...that was "fun". But it's out. No broken connectors, no separated vacuum lines. That's a win.


Outstanding and sometimes ya just gotta go the whole 9 yards. I've always said and believed that whatever you're doing on a Chrysler will be pretty straight forward except for that one #@$%! bolt. In this case, speaker grille screws.

Pencil erasers are great contact cleaners, so are US currency. bulb to socket connection is more of a problem than bulb life. gauge to ckt bd connecters slip out with a light squeeze. great time to splice in connectors for the later radios - up to early 2000s bolts right in, sounds much better.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2949987
08/03/21 12:29 PM
08/03/21 12:29 PM
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larrymopar360 Offline
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RWG you're so right on contacts in the bulb sockets versus bulb life! I use finger nail emory boards for alot of them. Sometimes I break them into smaller pieces to get into spots but for the bottoms erasers are better up


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: larrymopar360] #2950004
08/03/21 01:36 PM
08/03/21 01:36 PM
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moparx Offline
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in the first and second pictures, it looks like a couple of the ribbons are coming loose from the board, and need glued down.
would super glue/gorilla glue work for this application ?
beer

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: moparx] #2950215
08/03/21 09:55 PM
08/03/21 09:55 PM

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Happens with bulb sockets too. A couple drops of super glue, tweezer with a rubber band as a clamp. Holds well enough to get connector in. Connector will hold it. Tinning the trace can tighten it up too.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2950290
08/04/21 07:51 AM
08/04/21 07:51 AM
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Last night's work: ringing out the cluster. Best job so far, since I could do it in the house, where the air conditioning is. When the only downside is that the cats find your electrical book quite comfortable, it's not a bad thing to do.

In short, the cluster rings out properly, no breaks. Every connector point that's active, all three points on the voltage limiter, all good. Good news, since this means the cluster is fine and I can finish it up and prepare to re-install it.

Bad news, because it means it's time to start ringing out the car, from bulkhead to connectors.

70C9F695-A092-4FE4-9164-74828FCA2996.JPGIMG_2969.JPGD1303705-5ABF-4A36-A92C-491015B3760D.JPG
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2950525
08/04/21 09:02 PM
08/04/21 09:02 PM
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Now I'm starting to find interesting items...

Started to ring out between the bulkhead connector and the two main plugs for the gauge cluster. Here's the findings so far:

* Position 29 on bulkhead (oil pressure) - Violet on 12-pin
* Position 32 on bulkhead (engine temp) - Gray on 12-pin
* Position 22 on bulkhead (ammeter) - Red/White and Black/White on 12-pin


This still doesn't explain everything, not by a wide mile, but it's a start.

Next, I move to the seat belt buzzer (CI 7). As you can kind of see in the picture, light green wire has been double-spliced and the peach-colored single wire from that connection is running straight down to a mount just behind the ashtray. Somebody has been in here before.

Now, for the real mystery: where is the panel ground (CI 34)? Book says "left mid reinforcement". Can somebody put that into layman's terms for me, please?!

IMG_2972.JPG
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2950589
08/05/21 07:11 AM
08/05/21 07:11 AM

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Not sure what you're findings are saying beyond which wire is which gauge?

Kinda think the picture of CI-7 is actually CI-30, seat belt buzzer. The repaired splice should be headed toward the headlight switch or ign switch.

Left mid reinforcement should be the green arrow. CI-37, heater blower switch is described as just below left mid. I knida remember a large-ish spade lug going over the steering column stud on at least one of mine. Check for a stray wire in the vicinity, maybe the blue arrow. The red arrow is the rear bracket for the radio which is also it's ground.

IMG_2958a.JPG
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2950599
08/05/21 08:08 AM
08/05/21 08:08 AM
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Mainly for historical reference and to make sure that I don't re-cover what I've already looked at. Ruled out the cluster, figured the temp and oil pressure signals might be crossed up, according to the book (violet is supposed to be temp, gray to oil pressure). The splice at the buzzer goes in two directions: the light green wire disappears to the right in the dash, and the peach-colored wire out of the splice gets screwed in with a ring connector into the tab roughly just behind the ash tray.

Was way off with "mid". Will start hunting there. Thank you again for your assistance, you're a major help with this project!

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2950856
08/05/21 09:13 PM
08/05/21 09:13 PM
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Spent this evening crawling all over this dash. If there is supposed to be a ground at the the mid-structure, I'm not seeing it. At all. The only wiring going through there is either for the column or the brake light switch, and none of it is hard-mounted to the mount in question. Short of pulling the kick panels, I'm out of ideas. I'll do that in a couple of days when I get time to work on the Charger again.

EDIT - You said that cluster grounds at black wire at the 6-pin connector (CI 5, H4 20BK). Tracing that ground from the panel ground, it takes me to the cluster illumination lamps, the ash tray lamp, the heater panel lamp, the clock, the seat belt lamp in the dash, and the map light...all of which function, as do both turn signal bulbs and the hi-beam indicator. Looking at the three inop gauges, I see the shared ground via the voltage limiter...which means that if the rest of the cluster is working and grounded, what's the issue here? This leaves me two more points to look at:

* CI 4, 20DGN - This is the power wire to the radio.
*The output point at the voltage limiter to the three powered gauges.

Since the radio functions just fine, this leaves me no other option than the power point at the voltage limiter on the instrument cluster, right? Could the ...what is that, a condensor?...be the issue, or would I be looking at a break in the panel? I'll plug everything in next time and see what kind of voltage I get across the gauge points, but I think I have my target zone now.

IMG_2955.JPG
Last edited by Remy-Z; 08/05/21 09:43 PM.
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2950940
08/06/21 06:48 AM
08/06/21 06:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Remy-Z
Mainly for historical reference and to make sure that I don't re-cover what I've already looked at. Ruled out the cluster, figured the temp and oil pressure signals might be crossed up, according to the book (violet is supposed to be temp, gray to oil pressure). The splice at the buzzer goes in two directions: the light green wire disappears to the right in the dash, and the peach-colored wire out of the splice gets screwed in with a ring connector into the tab roughly just behind the ash tray.

Was way off with "mid". Will start hunting there. Thank you again for your assistance, you're a major help with this project!


Some PO in there would explain the both the wires being flipped in the hood and the pin not fully seated in the hood. I'd loop back to the connector chart to verify wire color vs hood position and ring it out to CE 1 as needed for a sanity check. The ring behind the ash tray should be CI 9.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2950944
08/06/21 07:10 AM
08/06/21 07:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Remy-Z
Spent this evening crawling all over this dash. If there is supposed to be a ground at the the mid-structure, I'm not seeing it. At all.


I'll assume you were also looking for it just hanging in the breeze. At this point ya may just have to run the length of harness and look for a single black wire coming out of it.

Originally Posted by Remy-Z
EDIT - You said that cluster grounds at black wire at the 6-pin connector (CI 5, H4 20BK). Tracing that ground from the panel ground, it takes me to the cluster illumination lamps, the ash tray lamp, the heater panel lamp, the clock, the seat belt lamp in the dash, and the map light...all of which function, as do both turn signal bulbs and the hi-beam indicator. Looking at the three inop gauges, I see the shared ground via the voltage limiter...which means that if the rest of the cluster is working and grounded, what's the issue here? This leaves me two more points to look at:

Not sure if you're chasing that in the book or in the car so: ohm meter from connector hood in the harness to any convenient ground point will tell you if CI 34 is attached somewhere. I'd feel better laying hands on it.

Originally Posted by Remy-Z

* CI 4, 20DGN - This is the power wire to the radio.
*The output point at the voltage limiter to the three powered gauges.

Since the radio functions just fine, this leaves me no other option than the power point at the voltage limiter on the instrument cluster, right? Could the ...what is that, a condensor?...be the issue, or would I be looking at a break in the panel? I'll plug everything in next time and see what kind of voltage I get across the gauge points, but I think I have my target zone now.


CI 4 20 DGN is power to the cluster coming from fuse #8 (zone 83D) which also powers the wipers, cruise control, rear defrost. The radio is on a different fuse and doesn't connect to the cluster but here's an idea: Cluster on the bench, use a couple small jumpers to hook 12 vdc and ground to the ckt board at the connector points, look for 5v pulse on the output side. The condenser is to filter out the limiter clicks. Wasn't step 1 in all this replacing the limiter?

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2953565
08/13/21 08:45 PM
08/13/21 08:45 PM
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Reassembled cluster. Found the ground wire from the main wiring bundle, looks perfect, no corrosion between ground wire and mount. Took the time to convert the dash lights to LEDs. Plugged everything up. Power on, key on, I have gauge lights but the brake light is pulsing, much like the low fuel LED. Broke out the multimeter to see if I have 5v coming from the voltage limiter.

I saw almost an average of about 5.5v in the pulses, but in moving around to check things the voltage limiter suddenly crapped out. The LED on the limiter kicked the bucket, the low fuel light shut off, the brake warning light shut off, and the alt gauge started leaning heavy to "C". The gauge lights still function and the car will still crank over and start.

I still have the stock voltage limiter on-hand. I can plug it back in for a quick test, and I'll order another RTE unit ASAP. Not sure what I jostled to make things unhappy...was just poking around using multimeter leads at the back of the voltage limiter.

And the next person to tell me that removing and installing the cluster is "easy"... weld

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2953654
08/14/21 07:46 AM
08/14/21 07:46 AM

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If it was easy, it wouldn't be a Chrysler. try to think of it has 1/2 fixed instead of still totally broken?

If the limiter is recent new, not surprised it's crap. Where did that ground turn up? As this car has obviously had dash ground issues, I'd keeping doing random ohm meter checks on the cluster ground looking for a flaky connection some where.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2953892
08/14/21 10:34 PM
08/14/21 10:34 PM
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Ground was on body-colored metal, right about where the (aluminum?) under-dash cross bar slides into, close to the fender.

Latest update: attached fuel sender and had a fuel gauge for about five minutes. Started to notice the temperature gauge going for the moon, cut power. Exchanged out the RTE limiter for the original one, managed to yank out the negative wire for the fuel gauge in the process from the dash. Reattached that connector to it's pin, now I have no fuel gauge, no seat belt buzzer, a temperature gauge hell-bent on hara-kiri, and for that dash of salt in the wound, a dead battery.

*sigh* Guess this cluster is coming back out...

(after calming down) Ok, something is wrong with a gauge. The RTE limiter has a diagnostic LED. If it flashes when power is on, everything is happy. If it cuts out, like it did last night, that's a protection measure. Today, that LED is solid on, indicating a short to ground. Just off of the cuff, I'm going to ring out the full temperature gauge length, from sensor to gauge. I still want to pull the cluster and properly sort out the fuel gauge's negative wire issue. The fuel gauge coming to life gives me hope.

(after a good night's sleep) Noticed that a 12v battery wouldn't start the car and would discharge fast, even with a jump box attached. Pulled temperature gauge, no effect. Found that fuse #6 (5 amp) is blown.

Last edited by Remy-Z; 08/15/21 10:44 AM.
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2954009
08/15/21 01:54 PM
08/15/21 01:54 PM

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that almost sounds like a ground for something else. power window harness maybe? left mid reinforcement?

speaking of power windows, never test them beyond basic smoke testing with the engine off. gauges shouldn't kill the battery but oh well, charge that too. So here's a electrical challenge: if repeated limiters are suspect, wire in a pile resister in place? the object is reduce 12vdc to 5. period. a bench top 5vdc would be to easy. Any sender lead grounded will make a gauge read max, over max at 12v. intentional grounding is easy way to test body wiring. maybe even a rheostat to check accuracy.

the old one and the original ones sound like new ones which make them both suspect. the real deal ones were dumb cans covering a dividing resistor or a relay and a resistor. no switching transistor or solid state devices. lasted for ever. fuse 6 is only the radio so maybe a stray hot down there? thinking 2 cavity L shaped connector.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: ] #2954126
08/15/21 10:10 PM
08/15/21 10:10 PM
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I'm too brain-fried to process that right now. Tore it all back out. Have battery charger trickle-charging for tomorrow's testing. But I did find three orphan connectors:

1. orange/black - looks like CI 44, Accessory Title Lamp, down near emergency brake.
2. heavy gauge blue/white single connector. I haven't found that in the book yet. Close to bulkhead connector.
3. yellow/yellow/pink. Looks like CI 29, Time Delay Relay.

Okay, so I found connectors that aren't serving a purpose. Unless blue/white heavy gauge has a point, this is just a note. But..

IMG_3032.JPGIMG_3036.JPGIMG_3037.JPG
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2954127
08/15/21 10:12 PM
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Here's the ground I originally found, left side of cluster, above the HVAC controls. Black and gray, banking on CI 34, main harness ground. This is a crank-window Charger, no power features. Then, I found this stud behind and just above the ashtray, with nothing attached to it. Seems kind of strange, since this is functionally the middle of the dash.

The alt gauge appears to now be damaged, it reads between centered and "C" and moves for nothing. Temperature gauge still goes properly maxed out once key-on is applied. Fuel gauge is safe and functional.

And is it just me, or does it look like someone has already been in this wiring? I've never seen that kind of electrical tape in a stock Chrysler product from 1976. That seems...newer.

Tomorrow I will attempt to start the car with no gauge cluster in place in the hopes that I can charge the car where it sits, instead of having to unload my entire garage, shove the car out, and tow it to where my wife's Silverado can get to it.

IMG_3033.JPGIMG_3041.JPG
Last edited by Remy-Z; 08/15/21 10:18 PM.
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2954175
08/16/21 07:51 AM
08/16/21 07:51 AM

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Stray unused connectors aren't always a problem. Sometimes they're for options not installed. Power window and power locks are both stand alone add on harnesses that plug in to the main body harness. Aux title lamp in kick panel might be for the Cordoba B pillar opera lamps or the rear defrost switch goes right there. Pink and yellow is generally locks. shiny electrical tape probably existed in the 70s but they used cloth tape at the factory and no doubt somebody has been in here. Might be time well spent peeling some of it back. Not gonna get any where until vr fixed.

Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: Remy-Z] #2954261
08/16/21 12:29 PM
08/16/21 12:29 PM
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That small two wire connector in the first picture looks like a CB power connector to me.


74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI.
New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.
Re: 1976 Charger - Speedometer and Gauge Issues [Re: randavis] #2954303
08/16/21 02:16 PM
08/16/21 02:16 PM
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north of coder
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i have seen shiny tape in unmolested 74-78 chryslers i have junked, so i'm guessing by your pics and the way the tape is applied, it looks factory compared to the stuff i have junked over the years.
in my experience, the pink and yellow together, usually go to dome and courtesy light[s] circuits.
beer

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