Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Engine Removal Question #2949233
07/31/21 07:56 PM
07/31/21 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
G
GTX4spd Offline OP
pro stock
GTX4spd  Offline OP
pro stock
G

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
I’ve removed/installed several engines over the years, but they were all attached to automatic transmissions. Getting ready to pull a 440 that’s backed by an 833 & would appreciate advice on how to do it. And I don’t have any tool that fits the splined fasteners attaching the clutch to the flywheel. What is that wrench or socket called? I know this is basic knowledge for many of you but as I said, I’ve never dealt with removing an engine from a manual.
Thanks


"Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or surely, we shall all hang seperately."--Benjamin Franklin www.wwnboa.org if you're interested in '62-'74 B-Bodies
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949234
07/31/21 08:16 PM
07/31/21 08:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Automatic or manual, I always remove the transmission before pulling the engine.

Less chance of damaging the body that way.

Are you referring to a 12 point socket? Some do have 12 point bolt heads.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949235
07/31/21 08:20 PM
07/31/21 08:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 937
Central Michigan
N
nuthinbutmopar Offline
super stock
nuthinbutmopar  Offline
super stock
N

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 937
Central Michigan
Other than removing the shifter, there's really no difference in pulling an engine with a manual instead of an automatic. You CAN remove the transmission and bell housing, but there's no need. If you do, there's no need to pull the clutch. Normally, the pressure plate-to-flywheel bolts are standard hex-head, but they could be anything: Torx, spline drive, allen socket, double-square, double-hex, etc. I suspect you're looking from the bottom and seeing some part of the pressure plate, NOT the bolts holding it to the flywheel. You don't want to unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel until the trans/bellhouing is out of the way.

Last edited by nuthinbutmopar; 07/31/21 08:22 PM.
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #2949252
07/31/21 09:22 PM
07/31/21 09:22 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,175
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,175
nowhere
I think he's talking about a clutch alignment tool. There are basically, two possibilities, 23 or 18 spline, 23 spline linked.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1974,dart,5.2l+318cid+v8,1088760,transmission-manual,clutch+alignment+tool,7700

If not, it's just a normal socket.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: Sniper] #2949332
08/01/21 09:44 AM
08/01/21 09:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
Its so much easier to get the engine out from the top if you remove as much as you can from the back first - but the clutch itself can stay - it doesn't take that much space. I also like to remove as much from the engine as possible - intake, heads, etc. The less weight you have to deal with the better. Also, get the chain on the hoist as short as possible - that thing has to go pretty high to get the motor over the rad support and keep in mind the front suspension will unload as you remove the weight.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #2949362
08/01/21 11:31 AM
08/01/21 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
G
GTX4spd Offline OP
pro stock
GTX4spd  Offline OP
pro stock
G

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
The bolts are splined, and I searched online and found the sockets are readily available, I have just never before encountered fasteners like that.
Why remove the shifter? That’s the sort of thing that puzzles me. I’m basically trying to understand the difference involved in separating the engine and transmission on a manual as opposed to automatic. Automatics are simple enough,remove the torque converter bolts and bell housing bolts, but is it that simple with a manual? I don’t want to damage any linkage or splines,etc.


"Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or surely, we shall all hang seperately."--Benjamin Franklin www.wwnboa.org if you're interested in '62-'74 B-Bodies
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949376
08/01/21 12:08 PM
08/01/21 12:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada


When you disconnect an automatic you're removing 1" bolts and the motor is free. When you disconnect a standard you're dealing with an input shaft that's around 9" long and you have to pull the motor that far forward to clear it. The oil pan and K-member have an opinion about that !

Ok, so you unbolt the clutch. You still have to move the engine a couple inches to clear the input shaft in the crank. Sounds like you plan to leave the trans in the car - have fun realligning all that crap when you reinstall the engine !!!

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949383
08/01/21 12:38 PM
08/01/21 12:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,188
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
I Live Here
IMGTX  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,188
Looking for a way out of Middl...
I believe there may be confusion on what and how you want to do.

There are 3 schools of thought on removing the engine.

1. Remove the engine & transmission a the same time.
2. Remove the engine & leave the transmission in the car.
3. Remove the transmission and then remove the engine.

I believe you are going for option 2, correct me if I am wrong.

For an Automatics when you unbolt the engine from the torque convertor. You will only have to separate the engine from the transmission about an inch or two to be fully separated. Then you could lift the engine straight up with no binding between the two.

For a manual transmission it is common to leave the clutch assembled to the engine, so a manual transmission input shaft has to be pulled out of the clutch to be free and clear. This takes about 4 to 8 inches of separation.

I think you what you are wanting to do is unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel like you would unbolt the torque convertor from the flexplate. Am I correct?

If you unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel it will make it a shorter distance to separate the two, but you will have parts flopping around inside the bell housing and falling out when they are fully separated. It is clunky and not the best option.

I have left the transmission in place and forced the engine and transmission apart and it did okay but a less dramatic way and better way would be to pull the transmission, or at least pull it back a good bit and then remove the engine. This means removing the shifter or at least the handle in some cases.

The most common danger in forcing them apart is that you would damage the sleeve that the throw-out bearing rides on sticking out of the Input Shaft bearing retainer.

I suggest option 1 or 3 if you are new to pulling them. Option 2 is ok if you have the room but big engines in small cars usually don't.

I have had terribly bad luck with getting the clutch to align even with the tool or even spare input shafts. I usually leave the bolts on the pressure plate loose enough to slide the disk inside the clutch but tight enough to hold it in place if you don't force it to slide. Once it is together I bolt the pressure plate down. Not an option on most racing bell-housings though.

Hope it helps.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: IMGTX] #2949425
08/01/21 03:30 PM
08/01/21 03:30 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,175
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,175
nowhere
Originally Posted by IMGTX


I have had terribly bad luck with getting the clutch to align even with the tool or even spare input shafts. I usually leave the bolts on the pressure plate loose enough to slide the disk inside the clutch but tight enough to hold it in place if you don't force it to slide. Once it is together I bolt the pressure plate down. Not an option on most racing bell-housings though.


I've had good luck hooking up the clutch linkage and having someone step the the pedal to get the input shaft to align and seat.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949427
08/01/21 03:31 PM
08/01/21 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Originally Posted by GTX4spd
I’ve removed/installed several engines over the years, but they were all attached to automatic transmissions. Getting ready to pull a 440 that’s backed by an 833 & would appreciate advice on how to do it. And I don’t have any tool that fits the splined fasteners attaching the clutch to the flywheel. What is that wrench or socket called? I know this is basic knowledge for many of you but as I said, I’ve never dealt with removing an engine from a manual.
Thanks


The best way depends on which tools you have. A professional shop will drop the engine and transmission out the bottom using a two post lift. Farmers use a chain hoist and an oak tree. Everybody else is somewhere in between. I have an overhead crane in my shop so that is what I use.

pull.jpg
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: AndyF] #2949532
08/01/21 08:46 PM
08/01/21 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,197
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,197
Omaha Ne
Myself when dealing with a manual trans I either
1. pull the shifter off the trans ( assuming it's a 4,5 or 6 spd)> pull the Z-bar & clutch linkage. Drop the driveshaft and either shove a spare yoke in or drain the trans> then proceed to pull the engine & trans as a unit.
or
2. Drop the trans from underneath.

IMO, trying to line up the input shaft on the trans to a motor hanging from whatever is asking for trouble. others may disagree and that's fine wink twocents beer

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: TJP] #2949544
08/01/21 09:13 PM
08/01/21 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
G
GTX4spd Offline OP
pro stock
GTX4spd  Offline OP
pro stock
G

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
Okay, I appreciate all of the responses & it’s the guidance I was looking for. I wasn’t expecting to move the transmission but it sounds as though that’s what needs to be done. Not a whole lot of room between the car & floor & I don’t know yet what I can use to handle the trans but guess I’ll figure something out. Really wasn’t expecting it to be such an issue.


"Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or surely, we shall all hang seperately."--Benjamin Franklin www.wwnboa.org if you're interested in '62-'74 B-Bodies
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: GTX4spd] #2949602
08/02/21 08:56 AM
08/02/21 08:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
Quote
Not a whole lot of room between the car & floor


Uhhh ... you jack the front up and put it on jackstands to remove the trans.

Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: Stanton] #2949623
08/02/21 10:09 AM
08/02/21 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
G
GTX4spd Offline OP
pro stock
GTX4spd  Offline OP
pro stock
G

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,286
IN
It is on jackstands, but there’s still not a lot of wiggle room, especially for an antique like me.


"Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or surely, we shall all hang seperately."--Benjamin Franklin www.wwnboa.org if you're interested in '62-'74 B-Bodies
Re: Engine Removal Question [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #2952276
08/09/21 11:13 PM
08/09/21 11:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted by nuthinbutmopar
Other than removing the shifter, there's really no difference in pulling an engine with a manual instead of an automatic. You CAN remove the transmission and bell housing, but there's no need. If you do, there's no need to pull the clutch. Normally, the pressure plate-to-flywheel bolts are standard hex-head, but they could be anything: Torx, spline drive, allen socket, double-square, double-hex, etc. I suspect you're looking from the bottom and seeing some part of the pressure plate, NOT the bolts holding it to the flywheel. You don't want to unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel until the trans/bellhouing is out of the way.


Except on the factory 833 setup where you have that long [censored] input shaft that reaches way inside the crankshaft. That can be a pain if you're tight for space.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1