So 471 cubes at 4.25 stroke and 457 cubes at 4.125 stroke seems like the realm we should be in.....Would love one with a high ram and two 4150 TBI's on it....Talked with Kyle at Dart Machinery, and he thinks it could be out early next spring is best guess. He said the plandemic really messed up the timing of the release of it, but they are still moving forward. Pricing should be inline with their other CI offerings....So its a go!

Plandemic :
haha:

I hear yah brother!

Is there a consensus that lack of oiling at idle is what tends to wipe cams and lifters on Gen3's? I'm very interested in these new blocks and following this thread and the redesigned oiling and curious if these are problem solvers. Thanks.

Do you plan to sit in stop and go traffic on the freeway for an hour a day in the middle of the summer, with 5-10,000 mile old dollar store oil, and the engine idling at 500 RPM? If you answer no to these questions, you'll likely never have an issue. I'd bet that low idle speed alone, in an attempt to save fuel and emissions, is the only important factor to camshaft and lifter splash oiling. Set the idle at 750, run decent oil, and never worry again, IMHO.

It seems to me from all the reading that there are an inordinate amount of failures in cars and trucks that don't see excessive idling (non fleet vehicles) and are not treated to low grade oils. Every single Mopar forum you can look on has multiple threads on camshaft/lifter failure discussions so there's seems to be something to it other than setting idle to low, cheap oil and excessive idling. I ask because some of these after market engine blocks could be solutions and I'm interested.

Hydraulic lifters do require good oil flow and changes as the holes in them are small.

BS - they've been selling these engines by the hundreds of thousands for close to 15 years, do not let 30~ loud mouth complaints (90% by people looking for free replacements) sway your view

I do reputation management - everyone scrolls to the bad reviews and ignores the thousands of good ones, dont fall into that trap. There's guys on here with 250K looking to rebuild and make more power, ask them about reliability

I do take the complainers with a grain of salt because Mopars are the red headed step child in the industry. I think the Gen3 is a wonderful engine and have owned several so please don't get me wrong. I want to take one way into the future as in for the rest of my life. I'm in law enforcement and there does seem to be a bit of higher failures than other engines (although Fords have a ton of issues themselves!!!) from the idling I suppose but if I develop an issue on my '10 Charger I want to be ready and informed to do an upgrade

No consensus on idling causing it! I have seen it in plenty of engines that do not see excessive idling. If that was the issue how do you explain the fact the millions of early engines with the same oiling system and lots of idling that did not have this problem?

The only things that are basically consensus or should be is that

1 The problem is the lifter quits rolling and ruins the cam, not the cam going bad.
2 it did not start until the eagle era engines ruling out the basic design of the oiling system.
3 Some people say it is MDS fault but again lots of non MDS vehicles have the problem including my 2011 ram 2500 with NO-MDS and lots of early engines had MDS but there were no lifter failures.


A different block will not solve the problem, it is a lifter problem.

Thanks Dave and this does seem to be what I'm reading the most. Eagle Heads was beginning (although dropping a cyl seemed to improve with) and the lifter seizing wipes out the cam. But a different lifter doesn't solve issue because it's a matter of getting oil to the lifter.

All this said I still think it's a great engine I just wish the oil to one or two lifters issue could be solved with relatively easy mods.

Getting back to the block discussion...

What platform will the block be based off of, anyone know? 6.1, 6.2, or 6.4?

I am not sure, but the fact that the block can be machined for both VVT and Non-VVT cams is pretty forward thinking. I would guess that Dart took the best from each block to create this version.

larrympar360,

If I am reading this right, I believe HotRodDave is saying that it is not an oiling issue. If there was, then the 03-08 hemi would have the same problem since the oiling system is the same. This makes sense to me as well. Another possible contributor could be weak or too stiff valve springs. There were some issues with valve spring breakage for a while. The Eagle 5.7 has a more aggressive cam compared to the early hemi and had a different spring. Just another variable to add to the mix.

Yes it does make sense. In some ways I wish it was oil starvation to one or two lifters and additional oiling passages could be added aftermarket blocks. I want to hang on to my '10 till the end and building off a new block would definitely be an option. Right now I think very frequent oil changes are best idea in keeping my stock one going.

6.4 water jacket, with a lot of Iron to machine around the 1st cam journal.



As for the Lifter argument , lack of oiling is part of the issue, the other is the VVT it's self, computer programing. there's a lot to it, kind of like a perfect storm deal....one of the dealer mechanics I know who's done a few was showing me one 2500 where the issue was the lifter yoke cracked, the other one that stood out to him was a 2011 Manual Challenger , that had MDS lifters in a non-MDS engine...bad valve springs was part of the earlier issue, wrong springs ,

FCA/Stellantis has done a enough spintron testing to know what the problem is and how to fix it ...but they can't it's an Emissions function device and you can't remove them, you can only add to them.