To All The Business Owners
#2940985
07/07/21 09:53 PM
07/07/21 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 755 Tempe, AZ
loco340cuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 755
Tempe, AZ
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Hey everyone, I would like to solicit some input from the current (and past) business owners here on the board.
I am in my early 50’s and finally in a position to consider buying a business. The goal would be to buy a business that I could run semi-absentee for the next 3 to 5 years (idea being I could double dip on income). After that I would quit my current job and work the business full time for the next 5 or so years and then either let the kids take over the business (or sell it) and my wife and I could retire.
We are currently just starting our research and investigation on what businesses look interesting to us as well as how to go about buying an existing business. We are not afraid to work hard and put in hours if it will help us get ahead financially but want to go into this with our eyes wide open as best as we can. At this point we know we are not interested in owning a restaurant but that is as far as we have gotten on narrowing things down.
I am looking for any advise from the business owners on the board that you would be willing to share about owning/operating or getting into a business.... the good, the bad, and the ugly. I am also open to hearing about recommendations on the types of business to consider as well as ones to stay away from.
I have friends who own local businesses so I will be talking to them as well but I figured I would post this here on the board as I know there are a lot of people who belong to the board that have various backgrounds and experience and would be a good place to get a variety of different inputs.
-Thanks
70 Cuda 340 4 speed - now stroked to 416ci (SOLD) 2017 Mustang Shelby GT350
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: loco340cuda]
#2941011
07/07/21 11:13 PM
07/07/21 11:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,395 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,395
Highland, MI.
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I've been in business since 1984 - various types but all automotive-related.
My old business partner (23 years my senior) told me a business rule he went by: never get involved in a business you know nothing about.
Rule #2 of his: find something you love to do or have a passion for, & figure out a way to make money doing it.
Good luck.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: A12]
#2941030
07/08/21 12:29 AM
07/08/21 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267 Connecticut
1972CudaV21
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
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At your age, I’d only entertain something that your completely passionate about. Don’t have a passion? Then, a business may not be the best decision.
China is the enemy.
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: 1972CudaV21]
#2941131
07/08/21 10:30 AM
07/08/21 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,355 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,355
Omaha Ne
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I have owned and run a successful classic car repair and restoration business for ~ 25 years and am about ready to hang it up. I am done with employees PERIOD!!! Everyone of them that was here longer than a year cost me financially and some emotionally. I had the silly idea that if you paid them well, provided a comfortable work environment, took care of their needs (tires, down payments and other things), and offer a secure future that they would respect you and reciprocate. Noting could be further from the truth. I have scars on my back that will never go away. One was a close blood relative that I employed for 15 or so years and probably got me for close to 100K. Another employee about the same. The current generation feels they are entitled and you should be grateful if they even show up semi regularly So: Rule #1. With customers, Do everything in writing and be fairly explicit. Emails are great and admissible if needed. A pocket recorder is also great for reminding them what they authorized / asked for/committed to. Rule #2. Do not treat your employees as family or friends. Rule #3.Their problems are not yours. (employees or customers) Rule #4. If a customer whines about the estimate, politely show them the door as they will whine A LOT LOUDER on the way out. Rule #5. Try to screen the customers by talking with them a bit before committing. There are some slick willies out there that once you touch anything, they will then try to make you responsible for everything they can. Rule #6. If they are in a hurry, again, politely show them the door Rule #7. Make sure to take time for your wife, family and self.
Last edited by TJP; 07/08/21 10:33 AM.
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: Fat_Mike]
#2941214
07/08/21 02:33 PM
07/08/21 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267 Connecticut
1972CudaV21
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
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TJP: That’s sad to hear. But, I’m not surprised. Over the last year, employees are emboldened by the pandemic and social justice events. Monster.Com polled a group of people just recently & 95% of the employed are interested in quitting their jobs. With some politicians pushing a Universal Basic Income from the government and the constant bailouts, employees feel justified in leaving or doing what that want. In my opinion, older employees will be become more-valued due to their work ethic.
China is the enemy.
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: 1972CudaV21]
#2941218
07/08/21 02:52 PM
07/08/21 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I have owned and run a successful classic car repair and restoration business for ~ 25 years and am about ready to hang it up. I am done with employees PERIOD!!! Everyone of them that was here longer than a year cost me financially and some emotionally. I had the silly idea that if you paid them well, provided a comfortable work environment, took care of their needs (tires, down payments and other things), and offer a secure future that they would respect you and reciprocate. Noting could be further from the truth. I have scars on my back that will never go away. One was a close blood relative that I employed for 15 or so years and probably got me for close to 100K. Another employee about the same. The current generation feels they are entitled and you should be grateful if they even show up semi regularly So: Rule #1. With customers, Do everything in writing and be fairly explicit. Emails are great and admissible if needed. A pocket recorder is also great for reminding them what they authorized / asked for/committed to. Rule #2. Do not treat your employees as family or friends. Rule #3.Their problems are not yours. (employees or customers) Rule #4. If a customer whines about the estimate, politely show them the door as they will whine A LOT LOUDER on the way out. Rule #5. Try to screen the customers by talking with them a bit before committing. There are some slick willies out there that once you touch anything, they will then try to make you responsible for everything they can. Rule #6. If they are in a hurry, again, politely show them the door Rule #7. Make sure to take time for your wife, family and self. TJP: That’s sad to hear. But, I’m not surprised. Over the last year, employees are emboldened by the pandemic and social justice events. Monster.Com polled a group of people just recently & 95% of the employed are interested in quitting their jobs. With some politicians pushing a Universal Basic Income from the government and the constant bailouts, employees feel justified in leaving or doing what that want. In my opinion, older employees will be become more-valued due to their work ethic. This is all true. They have no reason to care one lick what happens to you, one of mine would literally say out loud to me that I was making piles of money off him so it was fine for him to show up whenever he wanted, I tried to tell him on a regular basis how it was not true after all the expenses I had to pay, (he would spend 2 weeks rebuilding a transmission that should have been 2 day job and assume the $2000 I got from the customer was all profit) the day came for me to shut down and move out of town and instead he decided he wanted to buy the business from me, I sold it for the value of the equipment he wanted to keep and now cries how he isn't making anything. I supported 15 people when I was running it, he can't support 2. I have done everything I can to steer customers to keep going to him, spend time on the phone helping him diagnose stuff, let him be late on payments to me and he is not grateful at all. My new shop I have refused to hire anyone I don't care how busy I get my hours are set and if it takes a couple weeks to get around to someone's car so be it, I got 9 kids I don't want to miss them growing up. Every small business owner I have ever dealt with has the same problem no matter how nice or mean they are, loyalty is a thing of the past, I bent over backward for those guys, did everything for them I had wished my employers would have done for me and I got no love from them, better to not have employees. My bad back of 10 years has mysteriously gotten 90% better, my rumatoid arthritis is way better and I am just happy fixing cars by myself. I think everyone should have their own business with little to no employees and we would all get along better.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2941242
07/08/21 03:49 PM
07/08/21 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,921 Richmond, Indiana
19swinger70
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,921
Richmond, Indiana
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I own and operate a small engineering / industrial automation company based in Indiana. Previously, I worked as a design engineer and an Engineering Manager for an automation company before starting my business in 2014. That meant I had a few years of industry knowledge for the business model I was starting - although I do not do the exact same thing as when I was an employee for someone else. I started from scratch, zero customers, and zero products to sell.
Started the business in April 2014, and the trajectory went like this: Year 1: lose a little money Year 2: break even Year 3: make a little profit After that, pretty normal business for a single person company with extremely low overhead. Most years, I made 2-3x more than when I was an Engineering Manager employee. 2020 was tough in the cashflow department, but low overhead and myself as the only employee made it a little easier than other businesses had.
As far as growing the business, I am probably the biggest obstacle in my own way. I know that. I have also self-funded this business completely with the money it has generated - so taking out a loan or credit line to expand in some way seems scary to me. I am self-taught as far as running and owning a business. I know that limits the business as well.
I enjoy the freedom of doing this over working for other people. EVEN on the worst days / weeks/months / years, it is better! If that is a foreign concept to you - then having your own business might be a problem for you.
I am happy to elaborate more on the specifics of my business if you'd like to speak directly with me. PM me and i will give you my contact info.
1970 340 swinger. sublime 1967 barracuda fastback BB 55 Plymouth Project
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: 19swinger70]
#2941289
07/08/21 05:26 PM
07/08/21 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,332 Addison Twp, Mi.
RobG
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,332
Addison Twp, Mi.
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Based on all this advice - I need an Ice Cream stand!
I am not rich...but I get off my ass everyday to make sure I am not broke!
Can we get the Mexican cartels to help us with our supply chain issues? They don't seem to have any trouble getting stuff from one place to another.
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: RobG]
#2941321
07/08/21 06:46 PM
07/08/21 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Some things are just less stress than others, I really enjoyed running a detail shop: customers were always happy and if it went bad after detailing they didn't come and blame us, they didn't bring you the car to get detailed if they didn't have the money. In the repair industry it always catches people by surprise, most never plan for a breakdown so they don't have the money to pay and begg you to take payments or don't pay for months blame you when the transmission goes out after you put in a new tailight... that part can get real old real fast but I do love working on cars (except fords)
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2941343
07/08/21 08:11 PM
07/08/21 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
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Before I started my welding shop 18 years ago, I talked with a lot of self employed people. Most of the stuff I learned way back then still applies today, maybe even more so then it did. 1) No employees! If you can't do it by yourself, you won't make it in the lean times. Hiring employees makes you a time manager, you manage the time they are suppose to be working, and you manage the time for you to secure work to keep them busy. If you hire employees, they need to produce income 2X what you are paying them, to break even. 2) A written contract on every job detailing everything you will do, the amount and time frame payments are to be made, and what happens if the payments are not made on time. 3) Get paid for any parts/ material your going to need up front, and use that money to buy the stuff you are going to need. If everything turns to crap, at least you don't have a pile of parts to pay for as well as loosing all the labor. 4) If whatever you are doing is going to take more then 2 weeks to complete, set up a weekly or biweekly payment schedule for the labor. If the customer gets behind on the payment schedule, all work stops, and a predetermined plan takes over. 5) Keep track of your hours on each job, use a time clock to stamp each start and stop time, document what was done every hour during that time. Picture proof is helpful if you go to court. 6) Finance as little as you can, monthly payments suck for a new business. It takes 1-3 years before the business can carry itself, and another 2-3 years before it will generate a minimum living wage for you. Don't spend more money then you make! 7) With the current tax laws, you might have some pretty nice stuff, but very little in cash reserves. The government (local, state & fed) are really good at taking cash reserves away from you. 8) Hire a good accountant. 9) Talk with a local to you lawyer to find out everything you need to legally have up front for your business to open, and what you will need to keep functioning in the future for the business you go into. 10) Set your business hours, and stick with them. Anything before or after hours is extra cost, no exceptions. If someone has an emergency and needs you after (or before) hours, they should expect to pay a premium. 11) There should be no discounts for family or friends! Your expenses don't change while you work on their stuff. Family and friends should understand that. 12) Set your hourly rate competitive with like businesses in your area, not cheaper nor more expensive. Be sure to charge for each hour you work on something, or charge according to a time rate for the job you are doing. If you can't make money on the time rate, you either need to improve your performance, or look into ways to improve your time. 13) If you don't enjoy what you are doing, why would you want all the hassles? 14) if you sell your business, DO NOT become the bank
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: loco340cuda]
#2941371
07/08/21 09:25 PM
07/08/21 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212 Minnesota
peabodyracing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
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Sorry to be negative. My personal opinion is it's a terrible time to try this. The current economic environment is a crap shoot at best. Employees will without a doubt be your biggest challenge. Every single business owner I talk with during the week cannot find or keep decent help. Turnover is incredible and getting worse.
After employees you'll have health care costs, taxes, regulation compliance, business insurance, workers comp insurance, trying to find a banker that understands something about your business and won't be moving on in 6 months, utilities, assessments, etc. SBA loans can be a real treat. If you're hoping to not be directly involved, you're completely reliant on someone else to run the business. Can you rely on them? How thoroughly can you vet them before closing the deal? What happens if that person decides to jump ship?
If you do look at a business, take great care to go over their balance sheet in excruciating detail. Debt load can be especially bad after the past 18 months, cash flow can be made to look much better than it really is. How strong is their business outlook? What's their competition doing? New regulations looming? I would always assume there's a good reason the owner is trying to sell and it's likely not the reason they provide you.
Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2941381
07/08/21 09:46 PM
07/08/21 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,355 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,355
Omaha Ne
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I have owned and run a successful classic car repair and restoration business for ~ 25 years and am about ready to hang it up. I am done with employees PERIOD!!! Everyone of them that was here longer than a year cost me financially and some emotionally. I had the silly idea that if you paid them well, provided a comfortable work environment, took care of their needs (tires, down payments and other things), and offer a secure future that they would respect you and reciprocate. Noting could be further from the truth. I have scars on my back that will never go away. One was a close blood relative that I employed for 15 or so years and probably got me for close to 100K. Another employee about the same. The current generation feels they are entitled and you should be grateful if they even show up semi regularly So: Rule #1. With customers, Do everything in writing and be fairly explicit. Emails are great and admissible if needed. A pocket recorder is also great for reminding them what they authorized / asked for/committed to. Rule #2. Do not treat your employees as family or friends. Rule #3.Their problems are not yours. (employees or customers) Rule #4. If a customer whines about the estimate, politely show them the door as they will whine A LOT LOUDER on the way out. Rule #5. Try to screen the customers by talking with them a bit before committing. There are some slick willies out there that once you touch anything, they will then try to make you responsible for everything they can. Rule #6. If they are in a hurry, again, politely show them the door Rule #7. Make sure to take time for your wife, family and self. TJP: That’s sad to hear. But, I’m not surprised. Over the last year, employees are emboldened by the pandemic and social justice events. Monster.Com polled a group of people just recently & 95% of the employed are interested in quitting their jobs. With some politicians pushing a Universal Basic Income from the government and the constant bailouts, employees feel justified in leaving or doing what that want. In my opinion, older employees will be become more-valued due to their work ethic. This is all true. They have no reason to care one lick what happens to you, one of mine would literally say out loud to me that I was making piles of money off him so it was fine for him to show up whenever he wanted, I tried to tell him on a regular basis how it was not true after all the expenses I had to pay, (he would spend 2 weeks rebuilding a transmission that should have been 2 day job and assume the $2000 I got from the customer was all profit) My new shop I have refused to hire anyone I don't care how busy I get my hours are set and if it takes a couple weeks to get around to someone's car so be it, I got 9 kids I don't want to miss them growing up. Every small business owner I have ever dealt with has the same problem no matter how nice or mean they are, loyalty is a thing of the past, I bent over backward for those guys, did everything for them I had wished my employers would have done for me and I got no love from them, better to not have employees. My bad back of 10 years has mysteriously gotten 90% better, my rumatoid arthritis is way better and I am just happy fixing cars by myself. I think everyone should have their own business with little to no employees and we would all get along better. To 1972 Cuda: Thank you very much for acknowledging To Hot Rod Dave; Couldn't agree more and that is EXACTLY where I am going. I have one car left to "clean up" from the last employee who again, left me high and dry with half finished project he committed to finishing before leaving. After that, it's pick and choose time. I will give existing / previous customers priority but if anyone is in a hurry, go someplace else. My days of stressing and caring about customers and employees problems are DONE!!!! The last 3.5 years have been a real struggle at times, to an extent I blame myself for allowing it but did so because I trusted, cared and believed. But in the end they are the ones that lost as they did not realize what I offered them. The most painful part was realizing I lost nothing as I never had it to begin with. And thanks
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Re: To All The Business Owners
[Re: AndyF]
#2941676
07/09/21 09:50 PM
07/09/21 09:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,208 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,208
Someplace you aren't
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I think I’d take my money and invest it in the stock market. You can make way more with less trouble, control the taxes with how you go about it, and not be getting into uncharted waters late in life. You can get by with little understanding of it if you just stick with a few etfs. You need to do something with a business that you understand and the business will not work out if you are depending on other people to run it.
I bailed on landlording after 20 years. Growing up in a family that did a lot of that, I started already having the lay of the land. It got steadily worse as society has crumbled. The lower end of the scale has gotten so disgusting and entitled it’s hard to describe how hard it is to get a good tenant. Even ones that start good hit a wall after 18-24 months. My right hand guy didn’t believe me until after a few years of seeing it play out. Something just snaps inside people at that interval. He eventually started having failing health and without my buddy I said enough is enough.
I want my fair share
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