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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933405
06/14/21 11:49 PM
06/14/21 11:49 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
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Posts: 324
Chino Valley
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If there is just one hole above that ball, in the separator plate then you will have no manual low or reverse.
Two holes in the plate and the check ball slows reverse and manual low application. Mine has the one hole... So that ball will stop the flow through that hole? Is it suppose to be there? I don't understand... So because it's there I didn't have flow preventing reverse and low from working? Is this the reason I didn't have reverse? Also the reason why the manual says that 727 transmissions don't use them?
Last edited by B300 VanDanage; 06/14/21 11:53 PM.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: B300 VanDanage]
#2933409
06/15/21 12:20 AM
06/15/21 12:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4406bbl
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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If there is just one hole above that ball, in the separator plate then you will have no manual low or reverse.
Two holes in the plate and the check ball slows reverse and manual low application. Mine has the one hole... So that ball will stop the flow through that hole? Is it suppose to be there? I don't understand... So because it's there I didn't have flow preventing reverse and low from working? Is this the reason I didn't have reverse? Also the reason why the manual says that 727 transmissions don't use them? That would stop reverse from working, I think they did that that because reverse was so harsh from higher pressure and breaking rear bands. I would leave it out, without knowing if that valve body is original, or has its original separator plate and years of castings and being a single hole vs 2 hole plate as mentioned earlier.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933519
06/15/21 11:22 AM
06/15/21 11:22 AM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
OP
enthusiast
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Chino Valley
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Make sure you have the balls in the correct spot. You should have 7 balls, one large one, and 6 small. (Early 727 got 6 balls total).
That may be why you have the one in the rear servo, it may be the one that belongs to the rear clutch.
The rear servo got two balls (with two holes) to slow the application rate for reverse because customers complained of harsh reverse application.
Nothing to do with breaking the rear band.
There's 7 balls in the top half and there's suppose to be one(rear clutch check valve) in the lower half of the body... I have all my balls and all in the correct locations according to the ATSG guide. The only ball out of place was that one that's not suppose to be in the low reverse servo. Also, there are little x's etched into the metal where all the balls go but no x at the low reverse servo. So this confirms it then! They put a ball where there wasn't suppose to be one! This and the misalignment that I've mentioned in my other threads makes me wonder how they could've messed up so bad...Either way that shop is going to hear from me! Not looking forward to that.
Last edited by B300 VanDanage; 06/15/21 11:26 AM.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933551
06/15/21 12:56 PM
06/15/21 12:56 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
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Please post a pic of your valve body with the balls in place.
The lower aluminum portion is called the Transfer Plate, the sheet metal part is called the Separator Plate..
The transfer plate should only have one ball, and that’s for the rear clutch apply. You can leave that out if you want a firmer and quicker rear clutch apply.
I did...
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: B300 VanDanage]
#2933558
06/15/21 01:20 PM
06/15/21 01:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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Please post a pic of your valve body with the balls in place.
The lower aluminum portion is called the Transfer Plate, the sheet metal part is called the Separator Plate..
The transfer plate should only have one ball, and that’s for the rear clutch apply. You can leave that out if you want a firmer and quicker rear clutch apply.
I did... Every once in a while my iPad doesn’t pop the image up, sorry, I see it now.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933561
06/15/21 01:35 PM
06/15/21 01:35 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
OP
enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
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Please post a pic of your valve body with the balls in place.
The lower aluminum portion is called the Transfer Plate, the sheet metal part is called the Separator Plate..
The transfer plate should only have one ball, and that’s for the rear clutch apply. You can leave that out if you want a firmer and quicker rear clutch apply.
I did... Every once in a while my iPad doesn’t pop the image up, sorry, I see it now. Haha it's cool... So I think everything looks about right now with that extra ball out of the low reverse spot... I'm trying to assemble everything and I don't remember which way the Kick down valve detent goes... Does it sit flush to the body or protrude??? Or is it called sleeve on a plunger? Either way does the sleeve sit flush or stick out of the body?
Last edited by B300 VanDanage; 06/15/21 01:41 PM.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2933567
06/15/21 01:57 PM
06/15/21 01:57 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
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Chino Valley
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It sits flush, if you put it in backwards you get extremely high upshifts, like first at 50 second at 70. I thought so but I wasn't sure and I couldn't find clear pictures of it assembled... thanks!
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933578
06/15/21 02:21 PM
06/15/21 02:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
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If there is just one hole above that ball, in the separator plate then you will have no manual low or reverse.
Two holes in the plate and the check ball slows reverse and manual low application. For reference, the separator plate used with the check ball.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2933585
06/15/21 02:36 PM
06/15/21 02:36 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
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If there is just one hole above that ball, in the separator plate then you will have no manual low or reverse.
Two holes in the plate and the check ball slows reverse and manual low application. For reference, the separator plate used with the check ball. Cool... Makes sense. Those are mistakes a tranny shop should not be making! I'm suspicious because there was no x scribed in that spot and every other spot for the balls has one. Hmm...
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: B300 VanDanage]
#2933614
06/15/21 04:13 PM
06/15/21 04:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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Ok so...
I now have to decide if I want quicker and firmer shifts in reverse or not...
Once I do that I should have it all back together today hopefully... The tranny not the install...
It usually takes me a whole day to get the tranny in the van because I don't have the proper equipment and I'm doing it all on dirt so it makes it a little more difficult to roll heavy objects around...
I appreciate all the help I've received from everyone so far! Thank you!
Transman, you've had an answer for me in every thread I post and I appreciate that!
We've figured out why it had no reverse but still not clear about the misalignment. A bad torque converter? Maybe... I really don't think it was the flex plate but I bought a new one anyway just in case...
Hopefully this works out in the end. It's my first rebuild and honestly I'm almost glad they messed up the tranny because now I have this new knowledge about transmissions and new found confidence to actually work on them.
It wasn't as bad as I thought.
Once the unit is built properly on the bench with correct input shaft (drivetrain end play) and the converter is installed correctly you should only have to verify that the converter is indexed properly to the flex plate. My suggestion is find the offset lug on the flexplate and put a paint mark on it and set it at 6 O’Clock by turning the crank. Lightly lube the converter pilot and the crank pilot pocket. Then make sure once the trans is married to the engine that you have the offset lug at 6. You should have no problem sliding the converter in to the pilot. You should have about an 1/8” gap between the converter drive lugs and the flex at this point. Snug the bolts up finger right up until they are all in. Then torque them. Don’t torque the first bolt then move to the rest, that can cock the converter. I think I mentioned it before - make sure both block dowel pins are there and the holes for them in the trans case are in good shape and not elongated. You should be good from that point on.
Last edited by Transman; 06/15/21 04:16 PM.
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2933677
06/15/21 06:51 PM
06/15/21 06:51 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
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Ok so...
I now have to decide if I want quicker and firmer shifts in reverse or not...
Once I do that I should have it all back together today hopefully... The tranny not the install...
It usually takes me a whole day to get the tranny in the van because I don't have the proper equipment and I'm doing it all on dirt so it makes it a little more difficult to roll heavy objects around...
I appreciate all the help I've received from everyone so far! Thank you!
Transman, you've had an answer for me in every thread I post and I appreciate that!
We've figured out why it had no reverse but still not clear about the misalignment. A bad torque converter? Maybe... I really don't think it was the flex plate but I bought a new one anyway just in case...
Hopefully this works out in the end. It's my first rebuild and honestly I'm almost glad they messed up the tranny because now I have this new knowledge about transmissions and new found confidence to actually work on them.
It wasn't as bad as I thought.
Once the unit is built properly on the bench with correct input shaft (drivetrain end play) and the converter is installed correctly you should only have to verify that the converter is indexed properly to the flex plate. My suggestion is find the offset lug on the flexplate and put a paint mark on it and set it at 6 O’Clock by turning the crank. Lightly lube the converter pilot and the crank pilot pocket. Then make sure once the trans is married to the engine that you have the offset lug at 6. You should have no problem sliding the converter in to the pilot. You should have about an 1/8” gap between the converter drive lugs and the flex at this point. Snug the bolts up finger right up until they are all in. Then torque them. Don’t torque the first bolt then move to the rest, that can cock the converter. I think I mentioned it before - make sure both block dowel pins are there and the holes for them in the trans case are in good shape and not elongated. You should be good from that point on. Before I get to all that there are two things that come to mind that "might" be important and just another thing the shop may have made a mistake on and that's: Line pressure and throttle pressure adjustment... I didn't see anything about it in the manuals I have(unless I missed it).
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: B300 VanDanage]
#2933898
06/16/21 11:21 AM
06/16/21 11:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,336
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,336
north of coder
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even though the transmission is located by two dowels, i like to take a couple pieces of all thread and make a couple of long "pilot" bolts to put in the highest, easy to get to, bolt holes. i make a screwdriver slot in the ends with a wizz wheel to make them easy to remove. the pilots are easier [for me] to hit the holes as they are longer than the dowels. once the transmission hits the "pilot" bolts, the dowels come easy. remove the pilots and install the proper bolts. just something that works for me. 
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Re: 727 valve body tear down and inspection
[Re: moparx]
#2933940
06/16/21 01:55 PM
06/16/21 01:55 PM
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 324
Chino Valley
B300 VanDanage
OP
enthusiast
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OP
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Chino Valley
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even though the transmission is located by two dowels, i like to take a couple pieces of all thread and make a couple of long "pilot" bolts to put in the highest, easy to get to, bolt holes. i make a screwdriver slot in the ends with a wizz wheel to make them easy to remove. the pilots are easier [for me] to hit the holes as they are longer than the dowels. once the transmission hits the "pilot" bolts, the dowels come easy. remove the pilots and install the proper bolts. just something that works for me. That's a good idea... I think my dowels are in great condition. There's so much space under that van I won't have problems getting it lined up... Now as for the line and throttle pressure I'd really like to make sure they're adjusted correctly if anyone can help me out with that. Haven't found much info on that...
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