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413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? #2922115
05/13/21 01:47 PM
05/13/21 01:47 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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I've searched high and low looking for a toque curve for a 1971-ish 413-1 and came up dry.
http://travcoforum.com had one but the thread got pruned or something.
Basic specs are 435lbs at 2,400 and 265HP@4000, but how wide is the torque?
Will it look like an RV 440?

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2922250
05/13/21 09:28 PM
05/13/21 09:28 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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I have never seen a dyno sheet, but I would say about 400 ft lbs or more from 2000 to 3500 rpm would be a safe bet. Using HP/ Torque formula calculates 348 torque assuming the 265 hp and 4k rpm you posted. 440 rv engine would be similar. Both have anemic compression ratios and would greatly benefit from bumping them up. Do you need an engine?

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 05/13/21 09:55 PM.
Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2922287
05/13/21 11:47 PM
05/13/21 11:47 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
I have never seen a dyno sheet, but I would say about 400 ft lbs or more from 2000 to 3500 rpm would be a safe bet. Using HP/ Torque formula calculates 348 torque assuming the 265 hp and 4k rpm you posted. 440 rv engine would be similar. Both have anemic compression ratios and would greatly benefit from bumping them up. Do you need an engine?


I am looking at ratios for the drivetrain before I pull the trigger on purchase. We have 6% grades around here for miles and I want to be in 3rd at ~60mph and 2400 rpm, but there is some leeway if the torque is flat.
The 413-1 runs really well, but as you say has 7.5-1 pistons. I did add cold air snorkel and HEI.

http://www.flxible.net/enginespecs.html:
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2922409
05/14/21 10:58 AM
05/14/21 10:58 AM
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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Actual compression is under 7 to 1; What rpm are you running now at 60mph? I understand what you are trying to do running at peak torque. Question is will 200hp be enough to pull the rig up the grades you mentioned, and can you maintain that 2400 rpm without having to get into the secondaries on the carb.

The holley you run might not effect mileage as much as a spreadbore in regard to the secondaries, I don't know for sure.

As far as the torque curve goes, other info I have read from chrysler has 413 with 400 ft lbs at 2000 rpm. I'd say anywhere between 2k and 3k rpm and you should be running close to peak torque.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 05/14/21 11:10 AM.
Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2922608
05/14/21 08:39 PM
05/14/21 08:39 PM
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dOc ! Offline
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Sounds like SP2P territory up

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: dOc !] #2922807
05/15/21 12:43 PM
05/15/21 12:43 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Sounds like SP2P territory up


The OEM dual plane gives me 18-19" vacuum here at 4,000', and the Holley is factory set up with staggered jets. My added O2 sensors say it's running pretty even so I have no inclination to mess with the intake side.
Also, my carb builder Rick Walker (who worked at Dodge) recommends leaving it alone. I'd consider EFI if anything.
Like mgoblue9798 in the SP2P thread here, I'd like the 413 to turn ~2,300 rolling the interstate, whether it's with an OD, or 3.71 Dana ratio. Right now its 3400 @70 with the shorter, new 19.5 radials and OEM 4.55...

IMG_5392.JPG
Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2922892
05/15/21 05:44 PM
05/15/21 05:44 PM
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3.71 Dana ? .... 70 ? I had two complete 3.73 Dana 70 axle assemblies up in northern Michigan... they are probably scrapped by now frown

oGo sure appears dedicated to AT LEAST using the industrial head combo. I wish I could be too but don’t have the storage space to do it anymore.

What’s Your hoped- for MPG ?

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2923131
05/16/21 12:23 PM
05/16/21 12:23 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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Gear vendors o/d by itself won't get you there. Gear vendors and a high efficiency a/m torque converter would be very close with current gearing.

518 with lockup would be right on the nose as well, but you would have to rig some vacuum/ electric signal to turn off the lock up when pulling any kind of grade or lowing to protect the lock up converter clutch. An adapter for a 618 to mate behind the 413 would solve this problem as lots of diesel converters out there have triple discs. 518 non lockup with high efficiency converter would work and avoid the headaches.

If you consider changing the gearing, I would rather do a used factory set up rear than a gear swap. I hate listening to a whiny rear end on the highway. It is like the equivalent of listening to an ex girlfriend, or Doc, for hours on end. violin

The heads are an absolute at this point. Took a couple valves out of mine, and there is NO stem or seat wear at all. Clean enough I may not touch the seats other than lapping them unless I decide to do a 3 angle. Factory purpose built parts for the application that are damn near free are a no brainer.

I am going to do some tuning of the stock set up following Ray's lead on that. See what can be done with it, then swap my frankenstein 440/413 headed monstrosity in and do some direct comparison tests. I like tinkering and improving on what ma mopar did to test the limits.

Question for you Ray. Have you had any issues with ethanol gas- vapor lock, hard/no start when hot, etc when driving in hot weather? I am spit balling an idea of having dual gas tanks, the second to run ethanol free gas (90 octane here v/s 87 regular unleaded) to help with detonation if needed and to run the generator to prevent carb issues. Could also run it the last ten miles of any trip to keep that garbage from sitting in the carb bowls for any period of time.

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: dOc !] #2923257
05/16/21 08:45 PM
05/16/21 08:45 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
3.71 Dana ? .... 70 ? I had two complete 3.73 Dana 70 axle assemblies up in northern Michigan... they are probably scrapped by now frown

What’s Your hoped- for MPG ?


yes: 3.73, in a 70HD, which requires a new carrier for gearing under 4.1

Hope? 9-10 at 65...

Last edited by Ray S; 05/16/21 09:09 PM.
Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2923272
05/16/21 09:07 PM
05/16/21 09:07 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Gear vendors o/d by itself won't get you there. Gear vendors and a high efficiency a/m torque converter would be very close with current gearing.

518 with lockup would be right on the nose as well, but you would have to rig some vacuum/ electric signal to turn off the lock up when pulling any kind of grade or lowing to protect the lock up converter clutch. An adapter for a 618 to mate behind the 413 would solve this problem as lots of diesel converters out there have triple discs. 518 non lockup with high efficiency converter would work and avoid the headaches.

If you consider changing the gearing, I would rather do a used factory set up rear than a gear swap. I hate listening to a whiny rear end on the highway. It is like the equivalent of listening to an ex girlfriend, or Doc, for hours on end. violin

The heads are an absolute at this point. Took a couple valves out of mine, and there is NO stem or seat wear at all. Clean enough I may not touch the seats other than lapping them unless I decide to do a 3 angle. Factory purpose built parts for the application that are damn near free are a no brainer.

I am going to do some tuning of the stock set up following Ray's lead on that. See what can be done with it, then swap my frankenstein 440/413 headed monstrosity in and do some direct comparison tests. I like tinkering and improving on what ma mopar did to test the limits.

Question for you Ray. Have you had any issues with ethanol gas- vapor lock, hard/no start when hot, etc when driving in hot weather? I am spit balling an idea of having dual gas tanks, the second to run ethanol free gas (90 octane here v/s 87 regular unleaded) to help with detonation if needed and to run the generator to prevent carb issues. Could also run it the last ten miles of any trip to keep that garbage from sitting in the carb bowls for any period of time.



There are 4-5 options, and and it is a price/reliability/result decision, yet to be made. GV is 3k itself and I would want the 1971 trans freshened and modern TC.
Cope Racing builds a very good 518 kit, ~5k all said and done.
I have aftermarket 3.21 gears in my B3500 with pro install, and just barely hear them; I think premium matched gears are a must for real quiet.
I have seen my manifolds glowing bright cherry for 15 minutes at WOT on a grade - they are made to do that. The exhaust stems do not have seals for a reason.

As per ethanol, I swapped to all modern fuel lines and use 1qt of MMO per 20 gallons as per Rick Walker.
I rerouted the fuel lines away from heat and wrapped it as well. Also have a 1" phenolic spacer, although I hear the 440s had more heat issues.
I drive it to the PO or store once a month if it's been sitting.
I use the Mopar Performance timing setting via degree tape, and 60kV HEI with cut type 120 plugs at .049 - runs great.

The cheap ($11 ea) narrow O2 sensor set is fine; it needs to run "rich" on 10% ethanol anyway so it's out of the flat middle of the curve. I can then see if any cylinders are misfiring.
I do plan on adding spivvys when I get back to that tweaking. One cylinder is a tad off the others.

IMG_7157.JPGIMG_6351 both.JPGtune results.jpgtuner SW.jpg
Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2923474
05/17/21 12:32 PM
05/17/21 12:32 PM
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B1Frank Offline
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I have one 1972 413 short block, tough as nails !.....motor has low miles and #65 PSI oil press, windage tray, #452 head's , Lunati cam, edelbrock rpm intake , one of the best engine's i have had !

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: B1Frank] #2924504
05/19/21 04:50 PM
05/19/21 04:50 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by B1Frank
I have one 1972 413 short block, tough as nails !.....motor has low miles and #65 PSI oil press, windage tray, #452 head's , Lunati cam, edelbrock rpm intake , one of the best engine's i have had !

How much do you think the windage tray helps, and which one?
These engines are pretty low RPM tanks.

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: Ray S] #2924828
05/20/21 12:27 PM
05/20/21 12:27 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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Ray, just my two cents, but if your oil pressure steadily climbs along with rpm there is little to no oil foaming to indicate a windage problem.

You can do a test by comparing oil pressure and rpm numbers running with a full pan v/s one quart low.

With the deep pans the RV engines have I doubt there would be much of a difference if any. No difference in numbers means likely no benefit from a windage tray.

Re: 413-1 industrial dyno test - anyone? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2926791
05/26/21 10:30 AM
05/26/21 10:30 AM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray, just my two cents, but if your oil pressure steadily climbs along with rpm there is little to no oil foaming to indicate a windage problem.

You can do a test by comparing oil pressure and rpm numbers running with a full pan v/s one quart low.

With the deep pans the RV engines have I doubt there would be much of a difference if any. No difference in numbers means likely no benefit from a windage tray.

Sounds reasonable.
I can maybe see where WOT on a 7% grade and a full pan might be an issue - I'd have to test with a mechanical gauge though, I'd guess the OEM would be a bit slow to react.
Although, I could monitor the sender with a DMM.







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